Scaleforum 2017

Announcements, recommendations, visit reports etc. Discussion of the Society's own shows.
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kelly
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby kelly » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:08 pm

pete_mcfarlane wrote:
Flymo748 wrote:
martin goodall wrote:I already responded to a similar comment on RMWeb:

"Numbers through the door were slightly down on last year.


I like RMweb and post on it all the time, but some people on there are always ready to write the obituary from finescale modelling. Attendence at S4um being down by one person compared to last year is always a sign of our impending demise.

This year was my first attendance after the move from Learherhead, and I thought it was a really good show.


The numbers through the door only matter if it is losing money really. As long as finances are healthy it should hopefully all be well.

Obviously it is much better if as many members as possible make it along, but it isn't always going to be possible, and is why having the Wakefield show is helpful for some.
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Albert Hall
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Albert Hall » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:17 am

This was also my first visit to Scaleforum since Leatherhead. My last trip to Stoke Mandeville was in the early days of Railex and the journey was half the distance that it is now. Parking was a bit of a 'mare back then. Somehow I had convinced myself that it was too far to drive and my body would pay the price for days after.

I bit the bullet and went for it leaving North Somerset at 0730 on Saturday, up the M5 and across the Cotswolds. Getting around the top end of Oxford wasn't too bad compared with last time when I used the M4. AA Journey Planner said 2 hours 24 minutes and that was only about 10 minutes out. I even managed to get there just before opening time and parking was fine. Really enjoyed the show, caught up with some old mates and gave the old credit card a bit of a bashing. Plenty of room to move around and a good mix of layouts, traders and demonstrators. Thanks to everyone involved in making it happen. I'm even contemplating jumping on the train up to Wakefield next year which can be done in around 4 hours each way.

Oh, and the body did protest a bit next day but having a comfortable automatic car these days made a lot of difference. I had even recovered enough to carry on with my 12 inch to the foot 'modelling' at Midsomer Norton (S&DRHT) by Monday!

Roy

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Re6/6
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Re6/6 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:23 am

pete_mcfarlane wrote:I like RMweb and post on it all the time, but some people on there are always ready to write the obituary from finescale modelling. Attendence at S4um being down by one person compared to last year is always a sign of our impending demise.


There's always a few who regularly trot out the same old nonsense on there. The individual in question has been roundly put back in his box!
John

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iak
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby iak » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:24 am

Re6/6 wrote:
pete_mcfarlane wrote:I like RMweb and post on it all the time, but some people on there are always ready to write the obituary from finescale modelling. Attendence at S4um being down by one person compared to last year is always a sign of our impending demise.


There's always a few who regularly trot out the same old nonsense on there. The individual in question has been roundly put back in his box!


Is this with the burial option or not, pending further misdeeds? :twisted:



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High Level Kits
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby High Level Kits » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:57 am

I've said it before, I think the misery of driving puts some people off...

I found Saturday to be a bit quieter than usual, but Sunday much busier than expected. Refreshing that plenty of people bought stuff with the intention of getting 'stuck in' to kits and scratch builds. Came away feeling positive.

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:06 pm

Re6/6 wrote:
pete_mcfarlane wrote:I like RMweb and post on it all the time, but some people on there are always ready to write the obituary from finescale modelling. Attendence at S4um being down by one person compared to last year is always a sign of our impending demise.


There's always a few who regularly trot out the same old nonsense on there. The individual in question has been roundly put back in his box!

Slightly Bemused by all this!

I thought Scaleforum was just that .... a forum for the scale 4 society. As such I had assumed it was organised for the members by the members. It is great that it is open to the wider public and is very welcoming .... hopefully it provides interest and fingers crossed some new members .... but I had assumed that it wasn't a 'show' or 'exhibition' targeted at the wider public for broad entertainment, but rather a more niche offering? If that's the case then presumably so long as the majority approve and it remains sustainable .... no problem. :thumb

Odd to judge and then criticise an event for not being something that it was never intended to be :roll:

Of course constructive internal debates on future developments or changes are an entirely different matter :)

As a relatively new member I am still at the stage of thinking everything is great :D
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Rod Cameron
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Rod Cameron » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:26 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:I thought Scaleforum was just that .... a forum for the scale 4 society. As such I had assumed it was organised for the members by the members.


Well, yes it is primarily, and that is solely what it was in the early days.

But ... if you want to show lots of layouts and enable members to buy things in person you have to hire premises to do it. So the cost of that (plus the expenses paid to exhibitors and demonstrators) has to be offset by income from trade stands and visitors, both members and non-members. How do you balance all that? Would all the traders still come if only members were allowed to attend? Would all the members still come if a smaller venue was used with a corresponding reduction in space for layouts? How much is the Society able to subsidise the event? Increase subs to subsidise excluding the public? I can imagine the response from some members who don't or can't attend.

There is debate going on, exemplified (well this time round) by a letter in the current Scalefour News. Everyone has a different list of boxes to tick that would make Scaleforum a 'good show' for them, so how do you satisfy everyone? For some, this year's mini-finescale shows like Warminster and Larkrail may represent a more conducive future; for others it might be a Railex-but-just-P4 that they want. Most traders are online, but I suspect that actual show attendance gives them a big chunk of their turnover, and it's nice to talk to them - otherwise why would they attend?

Another factor, with Terry Bendall standing down as Scaleforum organiser, is who will do it? (Join an orderly queue ...)
Rod

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:39 pm

Rod Cameron wrote:
Le Corbusier wrote:I thought Scaleforum was just that .... a forum for the scale 4 society. As such I had assumed it was organised for the members by the members.


Well, yes it is primarily, and that is solely what it was in the early days.

But ... if you want to show lots of layouts and enable members to buy things in person you have to hire premises to do it. So the cost of that (plus the expenses paid to exhibitors and demonstrators) has to be offset by income from trade stands and visitors, both members and non-members. How do you balance all that? Would all the traders still come if only members were allowed to attend? Would all the members still come if a smaller venue was used with a corresponding reduction in space for layouts? How much is the Society able to subsidise the event? Increase subs to subsidise excluding the public? I can imagine the response from some members who don't or can't attend.

There is debate going on, exemplified (well this time round) by a letter in the current Scalefour News. Everyone has a different list of boxes to tick that would make Scaleforum a 'good show' for them, so how do you satisfy everyone? For some, this year's mini-finescale shows like Warminster and Larkrail may represent a more conducive future; for others it might be a Railex-but-just-P4 that they want. Most traders are online, but I suspect that actual show attendance gives them a big chunk of their turnover, and it's nice to talk to them - otherwise why would they attend?

Another factor, with Terry Bendall standing down as Scaleforum organiser, is who will do it? (Join an orderly queue ...)

Wasn't meaning to suggest exclusivity or members only ... just that having read the RMweb offerrings I was surprised that people were comparing Scaleforum to Railex etc and then offerring criticism by comparison ... just seemed an odd starting point.

If Scaleforum wasn't predicated on finescale with an emphasis on the nuts and bolts (built/halfbuilt/demonstrations/suppliers) I for one would be far less interested ... personally I am not overly worried about the gauge (though I have chosen Scale four for myself) ... it is more the finescale aspect and the open sense of warmth, interest and the willingness on behalf of the more experienced and talented to impart knowledge.
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JFS
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby JFS » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:11 pm

Le Corbusier wrote: As a relatively new member I am still at the stage of thinking everything is great :D



Well, I've been around a few decades off and on and I still think so too!

When I used to run meetings with lots of people in the room, the hardest challenge was setting the temperature. I used to reason that if half the room were too hot and half too cold, then no one was happy, but I had done the best I could.

Looking through the moan list, half think it is too big, half think it too small. Half think it too busy, half too quiet. Half think it too close to London, half think it too far away. Half think it too far North, half too far South. Half don't like unfinished layouts, half like them...

Sounds like Terry has it about right.

One comment in the Other Place did cause me to double-take:-

"Minories had an operator in front blocking the sight lines, so I lasted 30 seconds before walking away.. "

Luckily, we are only trying to please some of the people, and he is one of the rest.

Many thanks to Terry and the team for all their hard work!

Best wishes,

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:25 pm

JFS wrote:
"Minories had an operator in front blocking the sight lines, so I lasted 30 seconds before walking away.. "


:o ....and so missed the most amazing piece of track, points, rodding, et al, modelling he is ever likely to see - personally I waited nearly 10 mins to get in close and have a good look ... and to be directed where and when the next throws and changes were about to happen complete with explanations etc etc - nothing more needs to be said ... all comes to he who waits :thumb
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Rod Cameron
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Rod Cameron » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:34 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:... just that having read the RMweb offerrings I was surprised that people were comparing Scaleforum to Railex etc and then offerring criticism by comparison ... just seemed an odd starting point.


Nothing surprises me about some of the offerings on RMweb.
Rod

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kelly
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby kelly » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:35 pm

I think someone is trying to hide the fact they don't like EMUs and 3rd rail and walked on by.

I never found the operator obtrusive, quite the opposite. I didn't get a lot of time to look at layouts, but I did take time to have a look at Minories for a few minutes and glad I did. Excellent work Howard (not to say others weren't of course, the standard was very high once again).
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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby David Thorpe » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:48 pm

JFS wrote:Looking through the moan list, half think it is too big, half think it too small. Half think it too busy, half too quiet. Half think it too close to London, half think it too far away. Half think it too far North, half too far South. Half don't like unfinished layouts, half like them...


I'm not sure what list you've been reading, Howard. The reaction to the show on RMWeb has been overwhelmingly positive. Over 20 posters, all of who appear to have been to the show, were fulsome in their praise of it. Less than half a dozen more had very much enjoyed the show but made points that some might comsider negative, others constructive, eg price of entry, low footfall, unfinished layouts. As far as I can see there were only two posters who were wholly negative, only one of whom had been to the show and he at least said why he had been disappointed.

My understanding is that we want to attract non-members to our shows. We can't necessarily expect them to appreciate precisely the same things as members do and constructive criticism is surely to be welcomed if we want to increase future footfall.

DT

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jim s-w
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby jim s-w » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:00 pm

JFS wrote:One comment in the Other Place did cause me to double-take:-

"Minories had an operator in front blocking the sight lines, so I lasted 30 seconds before walking away.. "


Apparently one person thought brettell road was too dark but the lights were too bright. Bit confused as to what he wants me to do!

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iak
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby iak » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:38 pm

jim s-w wrote:
JFS wrote:One comment in the Other Place did cause me to double-take:-

"Minories had an operator in front blocking the sight lines, so I lasted 30 seconds before walking away.. "


Apparently one person thought brettell road was too dark but the lights were too bright. Bit confused as to what he wants me to do!


Excuse me?
They talk twaddle methinks... :?
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iak
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby iak » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:41 pm

Rod Cameron wrote:
Le Corbusier wrote:... just that having read the RMweb offerrings I was surprised that people were comparing Scaleforum to Railex etc and then offerring criticism by comparison ... just seemed an odd starting point.


Nothing surprises me about some of the offerings on RMweb.


Some just love being grumpy b#gg#rs methinks.
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Knuckles » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:34 pm

jim s-w wrote:
JFS wrote:One comment in the Other Place did cause me to double-take:-

"Minories had an operator in front blocking the sight lines, so I lasted 30 seconds before walking away.. "


Apparently one person thought brettell road was too dark but the lights were too bright. Bit confused as to what he wants me to do!



Tell him you was going through the 'Twilight' or 'Late Sunset' sequence. :mrgreen:
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Monty
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Monty » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:58 pm

jim s-w wrote:
JFS wrote:One comment in the Other Place did cause me to double-take:-

"Minories had an operator in front blocking the sight lines, so I lasted 30 seconds before walking away.. "


Apparently one person thought brettell road was too dark but the lights were too bright. Bit confused as to what he wants me to do!



Just leave it as it is Jim! Looked damned good to me & very inspirational. Lighting wonderful, how do you get those lorry rear lights?
Cheers,
Monty.

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kelly
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby kelly » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:00 pm

The same person who made the comments about the darkness and bright LEDs said it was also too low. Utterly missing Jim's intended point with the layout.
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jim s-w
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby jim s-w » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:01 pm

Monty wrote:
Just leave it as it is Jim! Looked damned good to me & very inspirational. Lighting wonderful, how do you get those lorry rear lights?
Cheers,
Monty.


Nothing clever. Just fibre optic and a red LED under the board

Dunno what said chap thought the chairs were for, he obviously didn't sit in them. :shock:

Jim

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:28 pm

jim s-w wrote:
Monty wrote:
Just leave it as it is Jim! Looked damned good to me & very inspirational. Lighting wonderful, how do you get those lorry rear lights?
Cheers,
Monty.


Nothing clever. Just fibre optic and a red LED under the board

Dunno what said chap thought the chairs were for, he obviously didn't sit in them. :shock:

Jim

Have to admit, Bretell Road was so popular I never got to sit down ... but crouching down and peering between shoulders and from the side it still looked pretty damn good to me!
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Julian Roberts » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:53 am

High Level Kits wrote:I've said it before, I think the misery of driving puts some people off...


Why not take the train? Great service from London, and when I came two years ago from Scotland just a change of train Princes Risborough I think it was.

I'm amazed how many of us model train buffs seem to be petrol heads. I wonder how many visitors came by train. Of course we can't bring a layout on the train - though no doubt that would have been possible in the eras that most of us model ("Passengers Luggage in Advance" - PLA - I recall from my youth...)

I was sorry to see in your post above you were under the weather Russ. I recall it being about 20 minutes walk, but I took the bus one way as given by the Google Maps "Directions" - so easy nowadays to get around by public transport thanks to that info being available on a mobile phone, that many younger people who work in London don't bother with cars. 10 minutes walk a day is all that's needed as a minimum for a healthy life, yet 40% adults can't even manage 10 minutes per 3 months.

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:14 am

Julian,

for me there are several reasons to go by car but by train, bus and foot it would takes about five hours, twice as much as by car. I could drive to Ipswich station which would save twenty five minutes, but unless my wife gave me a lift that would incur car park costs. It's also cheaper by car, although the cost isn't really relevant. I enjoy travelling by train, but starting from Suffolk to go across country isn't straightforward.

So for me at least, the time/cost benefit of going by car beats public transport easily. The thought of spending ten hours travelling to attend a show doesn't appeal. I also have friends who stay over to make a weekend of it, taking in local attractions such as the BRC at Quainton.

Jol

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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Julian Roberts » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:44 am

Jol - just looked at my Google Maps directions for Ipswich station to Stoke Mandeville Stadium. It says leave 943 arrive 12 39 including 15 minutes walk. That's for now, not tomorrow, think there's engineering work tomorrow.

Of course I realize that for many people train is not an option! - for all sorts of reasons. But often, I think, it's a mentality we get into as car owners, and I am one.

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Noel
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Noel » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:17 am

Julian Roberts wrote:Of course we can't bring a layout on the train - though no doubt that would have been possible in the eras that most of us model ("Passengers Luggage in Advance" - PLA - I recall from my youth...)


Which was normally handled with passenger rated parcels traffic, and involved multiple manual handling, often under time pressures when into or out of a train, plus periods left on barrows, on top of or under other items, or even in a heap on a station platform, all of which I am old enough to have seen quite frequently in my train spotting days. There was good reason for the railways requirements for adequate packaging for all items, and why suitcases often had large straps buckled round them. So possible, yes, but sensible for a layout I am inclined to doubt...

If it was light enough to carry yourself, you could have taken it with you in the days of capacious luggage vans in every train. That's not so easy these days, but I seem to remember reading some years ago that a small [2mm??] layout was brought over the Atlantic by air as hand luggage.
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