Scaleforum 2017

Announcements, recommendations, visit reports etc. Discussion of the Society's own shows.
John Palmer
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby John Palmer » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:33 am

I've been in the habit of going to shows by rail rather than car, and cost-wise there's not much in it given my railcard's one-third discount. However, Roy's post about a 2.5 hour car journey to Scaleforum from North Somerset has given me pause for thought. His car travel took half the time of my train travel between mid-Somerset and Aylesbury, so, much as I dislike driving these days, I am now forced to conclude that car is the better choice for me.

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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby David Thorpe » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:59 am

I remember that in the mid 80s I sent two cats (in a cage) up by rail from Suffolk to Oban. I was really quite worried about them, but they duly arrived safe and sound the following evening. I'm not sure if that's still possible.

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Re6/6
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Re6/6 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:18 pm

It finished in the late '80s IIRC with the demise of 'Red Star' and passenger unaccompanied animals facility.
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kelly
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby kelly » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:19 pm

Attendance to shows by car is pretty mandatory for me I find, as I need to take the scooter with me, getting it onto a train can be a real pain, let alone taking anything else with me (my local station tends to prove rather useless in helping get me+scooter onto a London Midland 350 unit (mainly due to overcrowding of 4 car units on busy weekends [hopefully the new franchise will improve matters in this regard], but Coventry station can manage it onto a Pendelino unit (though the ramps are too steep so the staff have to give the scooter a push!, and the access is much narrower)).

From Covetnry to Aylesbury is a fairly easy journey at least.
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Monty
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Monty » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:10 pm

I think I have the right formula! The wife chauffeurs me to Stoke M from Gloucestershire, drops me @ the door, goes off to Wendover for retail therapy & collects me after one hours notice! No parking problems just a slight worry about how much she might spend!
Cheers.

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:27 pm

Monty wrote: just a slight worry about how much she might spend!
Cheers.


I assume reciprocated :mrgreen:
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kelly
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby kelly » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:28 pm

Monty wrote:I think I have the right formula! The wife chauffeurs me to Stoke M from Gloucestershire, drops me @ the door, goes off to Wendover for retail therapy & collects me after one hours notice! No parking problems just a slight worry about how much she might spend!
Cheers.


Does she also have a slight worry about how much you might spend? ;)
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David B
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby David B » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:40 pm

The train can be a problem. I would have to go in to London and change, which takes a lot longer than driving. On a Sunday, I might just get to S4um in time to turn round and come home as I couldn't get there before early afternoon! For me, the car offers freedom and flexibility - when not stuck in a traffic jam. I will often make a day of the journey, leaving early to avoid the worst of the traffic and perhaps visiting somewhere of interest on the way.

Phil O
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Phil O » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:47 pm

I see that there is a lot of frothing and foaming in another place over the attendance numbers, some of it is not exactly diplomatic to my mind. I have to say that I enjoyed and so did my mate, a non member. My bank manager however would like to know when I intend to start banking with him rather than the other way round. I hope that no other traders are planning to retire next year and I have to go panic buying again.

Phil

RichardS
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby RichardS » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:53 pm

jim s-w wrote:
JFS wrote:One comment in the Other Place did cause me to double-take:-

"Minories had an operator in front blocking the sight lines, so I lasted 30 seconds before walking away.. "


Apparently one person thought brettell road was too dark but the lights were too bright. Bit confused as to what he wants me to do!



Er that would be me Jim - but I didn't say the layout was too low as suggested by a later poster on this thread joining in the criticism of my comments on RMweb. I also observed that the layout would no doubt have inspired others to explore night time running. I'm sure your selective edit of my comments is meant to be humorous.

Perhaps I can explain my thoughts. And these are only a point of view and how I see things.

Night-time is not dark - even where I live and the street lights are turned off it is never actually dark this is because of the ambient light illuminating things. This might be moonlight, street-lighting elsewhere reflecting from clouds, refelctions from wet streets, the left over glow from sunset or dawn depending upon time of day and year; low levels of light from houses shops and so forth. In parts of the UK in mid summer the sky can never fully darken.

Now I don't know whether your layout is lit in an ambient way or relies on just the LEDs and so forth. Every time I walked past the chairs were full of people who were captivated by the layout. Nor do I know whether it is modelled on a night when there was a full moon or a fully overcast moonless sky. Perhaps that is or isn't a consideration you have made; perhaps it doesn't matter.

My observations on passing were that I thought it was too dark and the individual LEDs too bright and I still think that to be the case at the times I saw it and from where I was standing.

LED's used on model railway layouts are invariably too bright (in my view). Where the rest of the layout is in darkness/semi-darkness this can create too much contrast. On a layout I was involved with much time was spent experimenting with various resistors and different LEDs to try and achieve a level of brightness which we felt was more in keeping with the scene involved. But this isn't the thread for a long discussion on layout lighting and using lighting to enhance the layout although it's an area which interests me.

I'm sorry if I have misread the layout or missed some of its nuances. No offence meant of course.

I also hope that perhaps the other poster will also now realise that my point is not 'twaddle' but a considered view albeit one simply alternative to his own.
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Richard

I'm not always a railway modelling heretic

RichardS
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby RichardS » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:04 pm

[
Last edited by RichardS on Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Kind regards
Richard

I'm not always a railway modelling heretic

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jim s-w
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby jim s-w » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:09 pm

Hi richard

Thanks for the clarification. The layout is set on a rainy October evening. About 5, 5:30 ish (Hense the commercial buildings are still lit) The street lamps are not LEDs but grain of wheat bulbs so I've swapped the resistors to dim them down a bit. It was a bit of a shame we were in the middle of the hall as we got too much ambient light from the back. It was brighter than I hoped it would be.
I can appreciate that the layout will look different walking past to stopping and looking. A bit like walking into a darkened cinema, you do need a bit of time to let your eyes adjust.
It's always going to be a marmite layout but that's fine.

Cheers

Jim

RichardS
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby RichardS » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:31 pm

jim s-w wrote:Hi richard

Thanks for the clarification. The layout is set on a rainy October evening. About 5, 5:30 ish (Hense the commercial buildings are still lit) The street lamps are not LEDs but grain of wheat bulbs so I've swapped the resistors to dim them down a bit. It was a bit of a shame we were in the middle of the hall as we got too much ambient light from the back. It was brighter than I hoped it would be.
I can appreciate that the layout will look different walking past to stopping and looking. A bit like walking into a darkened cinema, you do need a bit of time to let your eyes adjust.
It's always going to be a marmite layout but that's fine.

Cheers

Jim


Thanks Jim, perhaps one day I will see it again and manage to get a seat! But is suspect you will have motivated others to have a go at modelling a time of day other than noon on a summer's day.

I think lighting is an area which the presentation of layouts can benefit greatly. As modellers are in many cases creating a stage scene particularly those in the 'cameo' or 'letter box' style then the application of 'stage' style lighting to enhance the illusion must be an area worthy of exploration. For example: where the layout is operated to reflect a day's movements changing the temperature of the lights or the direction so that shadows fall differently could be one way of replicating a time span.
Kind regards
Richard

I'm not always a railway modelling heretic

Albert Hall
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Albert Hall » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:33 am

Regarding John P's comment re the car journey, I was pleasantly surprised to have to have made the journey in an approximation of the estimate given by Journey Planner. Although my car is capable of a lot more, I did stick to well within the speed limits for most of the time.

I suppose one solution to the problem is coordinated car sharing which can be arranged through this forum. It doesn't suit everyone and I'm not sure if I would want to be tied down by others requirements time wise and vice versa they with mine, but I wouldn't rule it out completely.

Roy

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Guy Rixon » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:40 am

I noticed that the tent over B-R worked very well when viewed while standing. It worked less well when when viewed while seated. The seating is a good idea, mind, but the seated position shows up the access slit for the operators.

On balance, I think the lighting would work better with slightly less contrast. I don't think the high contrast is unrealistic, but in theatrical terms the shadows don't need to be so deep.

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:50 am

Guy Rixon wrote:I noticed that the tent over B-R worked very well when viewed while standing. It worked less well when when viewed while seated. The seating is a good idea, mind, but the seated position shows up the access slit for the operators.

On balance, I think the lighting would work better with slightly less contrast. I don't think the high contrast is unrealistic, but in theatrical terms the shadows don't need to be so deep.


I for one will be interested to see how the lighting develops on B-R over time. It seems to me that there is plenty of scope for exploration and where Jim wants additional refinement. Models after all show a scene pretty much in its entirety where as at full scale the eye is readjusting all the time as soon as the direction of view is changed. This may very well mean that on a model lighting levels need adjustment to mimic the impression that this readjustment supplies. The same theory that drives the use of fill in lighting in photography and film to give a realistic impression of how one experiences an actual scene.

All interesting stuff.
Tim Lee

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Noel
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Noel » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:23 am

On the lighting of Brettell Road [which I haven't seen], I would suggest that perceptions may be skewed by modern street lighting, which is far brighter, and more widespread, than it was in the 1950s and 1960s. The same is also true of interior lighting. Even in big cities light pollution was at a much lower level than today, unless you lived next to a steel works or similar. In more rural areas, even on the outskirts of built up areas, a moonless night could be very dark.
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Horsetan
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Horsetan » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:20 pm

Armchair Modeller wrote:Very sorry that I was unable to bring 'Neversay' to Scaleforum. Looks like I missed a really great show.....


"Neversay" never again?
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Armchair Modeller
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:34 pm

Horsetan wrote:
Armchair Modeller wrote:Very sorry that I was unable to bring 'Neversay' to Scaleforum. Looks like I missed a really great show.....


"Neversay" never again?


:shock:

There is a rumour that I might get an invite to next year's show as punishment for letting everyone down this year......

Mind you, unfinished layouts at Scaleforum seem to seriously annoy one or two people on RMweb. Maybe I ought to bring a hard hat with me ;)

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jim s-w
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby jim s-w » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:27 pm

Yeah but the most annoyed person says he doesn't go anyway so I wouldn't worry!

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Captain Kernow
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Captain Kernow » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:47 pm

David B wrote:The train can be a problem. I would have to go in to London and change, which takes a lot longer than driving. On a Sunday, I might just get to S4um in time to turn round and come home as I couldn't get there before early afternoon! For me, the car offers freedom and flexibility - when not stuck in a traffic jam. I will often make a day of the journey, leaving early to avoid the worst of the traffic and perhaps visiting somewhere of interest on the way.

One of our number from DRAG did come up by train on the Saturday, David, and had sufficient time at the show to have a good time, plus spend a bit of time with us on the test track. He came via Marylebone, although you can come via Oxford these days, not sure if it's quicker but possibly a bit more interesting.
Tim M
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John Palmer
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby John Palmer » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:57 pm

I exaggerated a little in my previous post: theoretically Highbridge (mid-Somerset) to Aylesbury by train should take about 4h 20m on current timetables, rather then the 5h I implied in response to Roy's post (incidentally, Roy, I wasn't trying to cadge a lift and hope I didn't give that impression!)

Departing Highbridge at 0559 and going via Oxford and Banbury should have got to me to Aylesbury at 1021, and, to my surprise, about 10 minutes earlier than going via Paddington and Marylebone. The problem, however, lay in the five changes involved, and a bridge strike somewhere south of Shawford Jn delayed my Oxford-Banbury train sufficiently for me to miss the planned connection Banbury - Princes Risborough. Result: my 4h 22m journey tuned into a 5h 19m journey and loss of an hour at the show.

But David B is quite right to mention the alternative risk of being stuck in a traffic jam, or worse. On the Saturday of Scaleforum my Isle of Wight friends narrowly missed their planned ferry connection on return to the island, largely because of protracted closure of the M3 that day. Whether travelling by car or train, a one-day excursion to Scaleforum can go badly awry at my distance from the event.

So, going via Oxford rather than via London should be no slower, but is higher risk. I went that way precisely because I thought it might be more interesting, but really I didn't find it so.

David Bigcheeseplant
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby David Bigcheeseplant » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:07 am

I would if going via Oxford I would alight at Thame and Haddenham parkway and get a bus to Aylesbury from the stop outside there is one every 20-30 minutes I guess it will shave at least 45minutes off your trip as you don't need to change and wait at Princes Risborough.

David

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Paul Townsend » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:15 am

Guy Rixon wrote:I noticed that the tent over B-R worked very well when viewed while standing. It worked less well when when viewed while seated. The seating is a good idea, mind, but the seated position shows up the access slit for the operators.


I first watched from standing as seats all full.
Not seeing the operators meant a moment of terror when the searchlight and hand of God descended very suddenly!
Later while seated it was more relaxing as I had warning of the imminent intrusion of HoG...much easier on the heart rate :)

Albert Hall
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Re: Scaleforum 2017

Postby Albert Hall » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:07 am

No John I didn't read that into your comment. Personally, car sharing is not the ideal for me as I probably have a higher risk than most of being recalled for a domestic emergency (elderly parents who are becoming increasingly infirm and dependent). It does work for some people with the bonus of reducing the cost if the price of fuel is shared and it also avoids you talking to yourself during the journey. The other downside for me is the need for frequent 'comfort breaks' due to 'old man's problems'. Anyone with the same condition will understand where I'm coming from.

Roy


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