Scaleforum Attendance and Location

[Tim V]

As for online, the set of blogs we publish feeds for on this site is dominated (around half) by blogs published on RMWeb. There's no shortage of good P4 stuff there too.

I didn't even know this page existed!

I have put a new entry on my RMweb blog - but it doesn't mention P4 once!

[John McAleely]

As for online, the set of blogs we publish...

I didn't even know this page existed!

It has kept a low profile over the years, but I'm keen to develop it.

I have put a new entry on my RMweb blog - but it doesn't mention P4 once!

Good stuff. Is your blog in the list scanned by that page? If not, please point me at it so I can add it.

[nigelcliffe]

........................... blogs we publish...
I didn't even know this page existed!

It has kept a low profile over the years, but I'm keen to develop it.

That means I probably ought to check whether the code has any holes which need patching....


My experience of running the same code on the 2mm website has been that >50% of additions have to be made by me (webmaster) when I spot something interesting, as do 100% of deletions when a blog ceases to be active.


- Nigel

[Tim V]

Good stuff. Is your blog in the list scanned by that page? If not, please point me at it so I can add it.

It's in your list, now to see if the page updates....

[Guy Rixon]

Has any recent research been done as to the the best time of year for Scaleforum? Personally, I have missed it in most recent years because of work commitments that cluster in that part of the year. I'm not asking that the date be shifted for my benefit, of course, but it would be interesting to see if many others would prefer an alternate date.

[John McAleely]

It's in your list, now to see if the page updates....

As of this writing, it has. It seems to be configured to update fairly slowly - I'd be happy to revisit that if the page gets popular!

Nigel - thanks for the reminder. I think it is using an old version of simplepie, so I do plan to upgrade it myself at some point.

[dcockling]

I have missed it in most recent years because of work commitments that cluster in that part of the year.

Mother's birthday 21st April, sister's birthday 25th September, son's birthday 28th September (born 1985), my birthday 21st November: Scalefour North, Scaleforum, Warley!

Not so much of a problem these days but when my son was little I missed many Scaleforums. Personally I was disappointed when Scaleforum moved from October which used to be its weekend (last one 1983). Although I can do what I want on my birthday

All the Best
Danny

[DougN]

Danny, that might be an argument for the relocation! you can organise for the weekend you want.

I don't think it matters all that much as long as it is close to the historical date and at a known location. It is one of the things that happened here in Melbourne many years ago the "big" exhibition was in March long weekend. For what ever reason the venue cancelled/ wasn't booked. Therefore the organiser said we won't have one this year. This was heard about and with in a month of the date another group organised the exhibition at another venue on the proposed date. So the new organiser has had this date since for about 10 years. The original group had to settle for a 2 day exhibition later in the year, 4 months later! Their turn outs have been quite a bit less for the first couple of years. Now it is well known and the attendances are back to what they historically were.

[Terry Bendall]

Has any recent research been done as to the the best time of year for Scaleforum?

The short answer is no. Usually changing the regular date for an exhibition is almost as fraught as changing the venue. For 2015 Scaleforum will be one week earlier than ususal - September 19th/20th but in 2016 it will revert to the last full weekend 25th/26th 2016 and the venue is already booked so you can put that one in your diary now.

Changing the date causes lots of problems with other shows and particularly with traders who will often go to shows every weekend so we would not want to do it without a lot of careful thought so it is unlikely to happen. For 2015 being at Scaleforum will be my birthday present.

Terry Bendall

[Jol Wilkinson]

Has any recent research been done as to the the best time of year for Scaleforum? Personally, I have missed it in most recent years because of work commitments that cluster in that part of the year. I'm not asking that the date be shifted for my benefit, of course, but it would be interesting to see if many others would prefer an alternate date.

Summer shows don't seem to work well vis Wigan moving back to the Autumn. "Black hole" shows have an effect around them both in time and distance - Warley being the best example. Shows with a specific time/type theme also seem to lose customers who may not be interested in that particular theme. DE seems in particular of no interest to some modellers, so a spread of layouts does seem to be the better option.

Given the view that it takes about three years for a show to settle in to a new location or date, I think it would be better to leave things as they are, but seek a solution to reducing the financial deficit if possible.

[nigelcliffe]

Given the view that it takes about three years for a show to settle in to a new location or date, I think it would be better to leave things as they are, but seek a solution to reducing the financial deficit if possible.

I agree. And the obvious way to help on the deficit is to raise the gate price substantially. The members rate is too low, I understand 2014 was from as little as £4. That could be £6 or £7, without having to increase the non-member rate. Or both could be raised.

[Phil O]

Discussed above was getting layouts into local shows, as an organiser of a small local show during the eighties and early ninties, I had a great deal of difficuties in finding layouts in anything other than 00 or N gauge with the odd 0 gauge layout, these were all layouts that I had seen at other shows.

I would suggest that to help this situation, somewhere on the web pages there ought to be a listing of available layouts with a few pictures and contact details. This might help to get layouts in shows and spread the word.

My local club has a list of layouts and photo's of layouts both club and members own, that are availabe for exhibitions and contact details. Unfortunately they are all 00.

Phil

[grovenor-2685]

I would suggest that to help this situation, somewhere on the web pages there ought to be a listing of available layouts with a few pictures and contact details. This might help to get layouts in shows and spread the word.
Phil

We do have such a list, for that very purpose, which I thought was on the site, but it seems now you have to email for it, see bottom of this page (not exactly prominent).
With a formto add layouts to the list.
Regards
Keith

[dal-t]

Or anyone who wants wider exposure to the general modelling community could always register details in the layouts section of the UK Model Shops Directory. The 4mm section (here) claims to be for OO, EM and P4, but is currently mostly OO, with a bunch of NG (mostly 9mm gauge), a handful of EM, and as far as I can see just one P4, Harton Gill.

[Phil O]

I would suggest that to help this situation, somewhere on the web pages there ought to be a listing of available layouts with a few pictures and contact details. This might help to get layouts in shows and spread the word.
Phil

We do have such a list, for that very purpose, which I thought was on the site, but it seems now you have to email for it, see bottom of this page (not exactly prominent).
With a formto add layouts to the list.
Regards
Keith

Thanks for that Keith, I didn't know it existed, It would help if they had a rough location of where they are based as it would help exhibition managers and a more prominent position for ease of finding it.

Cheers Phil

[John McAleely]

I would suggest that to help this situation, somewhere on the web pages there ought to be a listing of available layouts with a few pictures and contact details. This might help to get layouts in shows and spread the word.
Phil

We do have such a list, for that very purpose, which I thought was on the site, but it seems now you have to email for it, see bottom of this page

The list of layouts on the same page was the list Keith probably had in mind. It has always listed the layout database email address for further information.

The page was clearly not something that's actively maintained as 'the list of p4 exhibition layouts', so I renamed it recently to members layouts. That has made the layout database harder to find, so I'll make that more prominent. I understand Terry (as the person who holds the layout database) is very happy to have enquiries, and doing it over email enables many variables to be considered rapidly.

[Terry Bendall]

I understand Terry (as the person who holds the layout database) is very happy to have enquiries,

Yes this is quite correct and the contact details for the layout database were included on issue 29 of the blue sheet which was published with the last issue of Scalefour News. For data protection reasons we do not publish contact details but we have a modified version of the list which includes the name of the layout, the period that it represents, the size and the town where it is located. Anyone can ask me for a copy of the list and I will pass on to the layout owners the contact details of exhibition organisers who are interested in particular layouts.

Terry Bendall

[Terry Bendall]

And the obvious way to help on the deficit is to raise the gate price substantially. The members rate is too low, I understand 2014 was from as little as £4.

It was group tickets that cost £4.00 per person. Single advanced tickets for members were £5.00 each, same price as on the door. Ticket prices for 2015 will increase.

Terry Bendall

[Tim V]

And the obvious way to help on the deficit is to raise the gate price substantially. The members rate is too low, I understand 2014 was from as little as £4.

It was group tickets that cost £4.00 per person. Single advanced tickets for members were £5.00 each, same price as on the door. Ticket prices for 2015 will increase.

Terry Bendall

£5 for a weekend's entertainment, you wouldn't pay that for a non league 90 minutes!

[Rod Cameron]

Even doubling it would make it a small percentage of the total spend for the day for most members, including travel, food, purchases, accommodation in some cases etc. But there's nowt so queer as folk when it comes to that kind of thing and some people react irrationally to the very idea.

Merry Christmas everyone

[jim s-w]

Reading the thoughts in scalefour news I wonder if part of the problem is actually this, the forum?

I'm far from convinced that a return to a smaller members show would actually work now as the landscape has changed. It's no longer THE place for members to go for tips, ideas and to see what people are working on as you can do that from the comfort of your sofa and get a whole load of advice in just a few hours. Rather than the single opinion of a demonstrater in a hall in September.

I suppose comparrisons could be drawn with the p4 society and the EM gauge society. Both have similar sized memberships but the EMGS don't have a forum. I wonder if thier percentages of members visiting their show is higher?

Just some thoughts rather than answers

Jim

[Tim V]

The EMGS do have a forum, but it isn't used as well as this one.

I for one don't agree that a forum can replace a demonstrator in a show. Having a person in front of you means a conversation can occur, rather than replies in text.

[jim s-w]

True Tim

But only 6 days a year. Do people really wait to see a demonstrator these days?

Cheers

Jim

[Paul Willis]

The EMGS do have a forum, but it isn't used as well as this one.

I for one don't agree that a forum can replace a demonstrator in a show. Having a person in front of you means a conversation can occur, rather than replies in text.

Are you thinking of the "Ask a Question" bit of the website? I have a look in there occasionally, but it is remarkably difficult to pick up what is new without ploughing down every path. They really need some sort of New Posts feature to make it a regular visit.

I do agree with you on the nature of shows, and even leaving aside the demonstrations the best bit of Society shows for me is catching up with friends from other parts of the country. Friendly as the Forum is here, it doesn't replace that ability to have a good old natter...

Cheers
Flymo

[Noel]

I read Martin Goodall's page with considerable interest. Part of the problem is, of course, advancing years; when I started (fairly) serious railway modelling I was in my twenties, and it was all new to me, with many advances being made. Now, 40+ years later, I have learned much more about what interests me and what does not, which affects my views of exhibitions and layouts. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says in detail, but the overall point he makes I very much agree with; so many layouts I see at shows, including Scaleforum, do not capture my attention sufficiently to make me want to stay and watch, or poor operation or unreliability quickly make me move on.

I'm afraid John Chambers' piece will make no difference to me; I don't often go to Scaleforum now (having been a fairly regular attender from the last few at City University onwards) because I don't feel I have any particular reason to go. I also do not agree with Arun Sharma; I do go to Railwells most years, but sometimes wish that Chris didn't cram so much in, as I find it can be quite uncomfortable at peak times. If Arun's suggestion of the same exhibition in a smaller venue was followed I would just have another reason not to go...

I was for many years a member of the EMGS as well as the S4 Society, but when 'Ask a Question' first appeared I had for some time been wondering whether I wanted to continue asa member. I made a number of comments about it by e-mail, some of which were taken up. I was also told by a committee member that if I was willing to volunteer to help, possibly as a moderator, this would be welcome. Having doubts about the format (amongst other things it is not really a Forum), I asked a number of questions and offered some suggestions, again by e-mail. I never had a reply, not even an acknowledgement, from which I rather concluded that the format as it exists was intentional and not to be questioned.

Demonstrators at shows have their place in my view. Different people have different ways of learning which work best for them. The chance to sit with someone and discuss how to do something can be very useful for some, especially as it gives them the opportunity to ask further questions arising from the discussion. However, the Forum can be equally useful in this respect, and has two further advantages - a (semi-)permanent record for future reference by the original enquirer and others and the possibility of asking the question(s) you forgot to ask earlier... I would think the two should be seen as complementary [not everyone is good with IT], but if the Forum eventually becomes the preferred method, then so be it. Change will happen.

Noel