Scaleforum Attendance and Location

[David Bigcheeseplant]

As a location Aylesbury is great for me as if I was not involved as a trader I could walk there. Both the M1 and M40 giving access from the north and London are not too far away, and although the railway station is the end of the line from London this year will see Chiltern Railway link to Oxford and hopefully in a few years to Milton Keynes.

Leatherhead was not good to get to as it involved the M25 and the last time it was staged there I was stuck on the motorway for three hours.

I think any location is good for some and not others and I know the Scalefourum team looked at many locations before deciding on Aylesbury.

Are the days of a one scale/gauge numbered? Expo EM was rather quiet last year plus Guildex gets around 2300 visitors so even that is not masses of people and Telford is not the best place to get to either.

I have always made the effort to attend Scaleforum at whatever venue it was held at, I tend to feel if people don't support the show it won't continue, so if you don't use it then we will lose it.

David

[David Thorpe]

I tend to feel if people don't support the show it won't continue, so if you don't use it then we will lose it.

Presumably those who don't use it won't mind losing it.

The number of visitors attending Scalefour North in 2014 was about 100 up on previous years (I don't know the actual total), with a 20% increase in the number of society members attending. As far as I know it doesn't make a loss. What is Scalefour North doing right that Scaleforum isn't?

DT

[SHurst]

Presumably those who don't use it won't mind losing it.

Not all together true as some of us live a lot further away from Scaleforum venues than others so may not attend as often as we would like.

As to what Scalefour North is doing that Scaleforum is not doing - how about its being held approximately 200 plus miles further north ?
Has anyone looked at where geographically the atttendees at Scaleforum North originate from ?

Simon

[martinm]

Hi there,

Whilst not really wanting to revive the debate about location; do we have any statistics about the origin, travel pattern etc of visitors to any of the S4 events?

The apocryphal story about the attendance at a travelling exhibition I used to attend was that people who lived in 'the south' wouldn't travel north of the M25, those who lived in London would not travel outside the M25 and those who lived in 'the Midlands' and 'the North ' would not travel south of central London. No one wanted to travel the north-west quadrant of the M25.

Despite last year's M1 incident, I have found Aylesbury easier to access, Wakefield is fine, Wells just too far away.

Yes, the various online forums are very helpful (though sometimes the advice is contradictory) but you can't beat talking to an expert and being able to handle the product!

Could the increase in expert demonstrators at 'local' exhibitions be partly responsible for the downturn in numbers?

Let's try and keep the main S4 events as good as they have been for as long as we can - go if you can!

regards,

martin

[Noel]

I tend to feel if people don't support the show it won't continue, so if you don't use it then we will lose it.

Presumably those who don't use it won't mind losing it.

It depends on why people are not using it. Geography will always make it difficult or impossible for some of the membership, wherever in the country it is. If it's in the north, the south will have access problems, and vice-versa. The problem is those who could go, but don't particularly want to. Why is this, and what might change their minds? Not using it does not imply a wish to see it to fail.

As with any human activity there is always a trade-off - you may go to something ordinary because it's local, whilst going to something a long way off means it has to be really special. What makes it special, or not, and where the balance point is, in terms of content against ease of access and travel time, will vary from person to person. In this respect Scaleforum is like a business; if it delivers what enough of the potential 'customers' want it will succeed. If it does not then it will cease to exist.

Noel

[Albert Hall]

Without trawling back through all 6 pages of this thread so see if it has been mentioned previously, another factor which can affect attendance is what other events are on that weekend, whether railway modelling related or not. It could be that potential visitors are faced with a choice of either attending our show or some other event and family pressure may influence the final decision.

[Rod Cameron]

I don't doubt that the Committee has been and is continuing to discuss all these issues regularly and at length. And there are some serious questions to ask, such as how much, as a Society and its members, do we actually want an annual gathering of our own? I suspect that the majority of those members who do attend Scaleforum do so habitually, if not every year (I don't think the attendance information exists though to confirm that). So there are two camps of members with distinctive mindsets, a glass half-full group and a glass half-empty group if you like - one camp says "I will go to Scaleforum unless I have good reason not to (such as a work or family commitment); the other says "I won't go to Scaleforum unless there is a good reason to". (I'm ignoring for the moment those members who live so far away that their reasons for not attending regularly are obvious). I'm clearly in the former camp.

So what would encourage those in the second camp to modify their mindset? Would anything? Do they have any ideas? Do they care?

If getting more members to attend Scaleforum is unrealistic, there are possibly three obvious routes this could go. One is to attract more non-members - but would these be locals with families or just non-P4 railway modellers? Commercially maybe that doesn't matter to numbers through the door, although the traders would prefer the latter presumably. Another is to introduce non-P4 attractions to the show - not just an annual 'guest society' thing, but something more permanent. Trouble is, that way leads to something close to 'Railex in the Autumn', which might impact negatively on Railex (or not) but perhaps more importantly to me dilutes Scaleforum as an identity - it just becomes 'another finescale show'. Nothing fundamentally wrong with another finescale show, but Scaleforum is our show. The third option is a smaller show in a smaller venue, providing the economics stack up. But how small - apart from somewhere between the current size and (say) the show attached to last year's AGM, I have no idea. Would the members in camp two come to such an event any more readily than Scaleforum? Who knows. It might then seem to be an opportunity to have a Scaleforum that moves around year by year, but that also has issues, not least that someone has to organise it, and presumably a different team every year - at least with a fixed venue you have time to develop robust procedures, relationships with hotels etc.

Lots of questions and possible options but no clear answers I'm afraid. I guess we need to understand collectively what we want a bit more clearly.

[Martin Wynne]

Nothing fundamentally wrong with another finescale show, but Scaleforum is our show.

That being so, why does it feel like another finescale exhibition -- held in a Leisure Centre with poor catering and a hard floor; some layouts; some demonstrators; trade stands round the walls; a glossy guide book.

But more particularly, a fairly rigid distinction between the exhibitors -- all pre-booked and arranged months in advance -- and visitor members who may or may not turn up on the day. If we are all members of one society and it is our show, do we need such a rigid distinction?

How about replacing the centre area of the hall with a Scalefour Clubroom area -- lots of tables and chairs, where any member can turn up with a rucksack full of their latest models, plans, tools, whatever, and spread them out for anyone to drop by and chat about? For an hour, all morning, all day, whatever he wishes.

For example I'd be happy to chat Templot on such an informal basis. But not for 2 whole days, not commit myself to being there in advance, not be listed in the guide as a *demonstrator* and have folks expecting me to be there.

I suspect other members may feel the same way. You can't "demonstrate" your latest wagon for 2 full days. But you can bring it with you, and show it to anyone and everyone who might be interested, as you would in a clubroom. But only if there is a place set aside to do so.

Martin.

[Terry Bendall]

held in a Leisure Centre with poor catering and a hard floor; some layouts; some demonstrators; trade stands round the walls; a glossy guide book.

To me that sounds like a description of Scaleforum at Leatherhead. Before the refurbishment only a small part of the venue had a carpet and there was not a lot more afterwards.

, do we need such a rigid distinction?

I can see the point, but I am not sure how it sops people from coming as a visitor.

How about replacing the centre area of the hall with a Scalefour Clubroom area

If there is support for this idea we can try it out. Not lots of tables but certainly some. Lets hear what others think.

another factor which can affect attendance is what other events are on that weekend,

But that has always been the case and certainly before Scaleforum moved to Aylesbury. Many of us will have many calls on our time and need to make a decision as to what they do.

what might change their minds?

Ideas please!!

Terry Bendall

[Noel]

, do we need such a rigid distinction?

I can see the point, but I am not sure how it sops people from coming as a visitor.
Terry Bendall

I think Martin is asking why the distinction between exhibitors and visitors is so rigid, and suggesting a possible way, not of removing something stopping people coming, but adding something which might encourage them to come. I don't think anyone is suggesting that anything about Scaleforum is stopping people coming [are they?]; whether the format is stale and needs an overhaul is perhaps another matter [and, incidentally, might well apply to many other shows as well]. I don't know how his suggestion might work, but it seems to me it might be worth a try. A sort of Forum at Scaleforum, perhaps?

My own primary reason for going to any show is the layouts. I asked some questions in another thread, and acknowledge that I got the approach wrong, but I do feel that the questions should be looked at. The current approach to exhibition layouts has seen very little change for forty years or more; a sequence of trains is presented, which is repeated after a longer or shorter time. With some exceptions, not much happens in the viewed area. Shunting layouts show more happening in front of the viewer, but often [normally?] using the same relatively small selection of wagons, and quite often without any obvious rationale to the movements. Is a sequence of trains or shunting the same few wagons around enough to keep an *informed* audience's attention? Those of us who are not informed would probably like to be. Is what was done forty or more years ago still good enough?

The Society or its members as individuals have been prominent in a significant number of technical devolopments in the construction of layouts and stock, but operation seems to be the poor relation. Viewers in other contexts these days are becoming used to interactivity, and to games which are different each time you play. So, operating systems which permit [or even enforce?] changes to trains, or shunting layouts where what arrives is different each time and so is what you do with it? The organisers can only select from available layouts, but could they or the committee influence what becomes available?

From another viewpoint, since Scaleforum is at least in part about informing people, how about displays which show the context of what is happening on the layout, why the trains are running and to where and how trains of the era shown were operated and why? Displays of how and why the layout was built as it was, and perhaps the chance to see 'behind the scenes', even showing layouts so they can be seen from behind as well? The chance to see various operating systems/methods in action, flaws and all, might be useful to others; providing 'hands on' experience of how the system works in practice might be going too far, even for Scaleforum, but... If we want Scaleforum to be something other than 'just another show', albeit finescale, then we have to make it so.

Noel

[Rod Cameron]

Noel, most of what you say there about layouts applies to any 'finescale' exhibition, or finescale element at an exhibition, it's not Scaleforum or P4-specific. We probably all have our favourite aspects of Scaleforum, it might be the layouts, it might be the traders/one-stop shopping opportunity, it might just be the overall craic and chance to catch up with friends. For me it's all of those things (gosh I'm so decisive ...).

Presumably it's the layouts that attract the general family type visitors, and the layouts and traders together that mostly attract the modelling but non-Scalefour member component.

Demonstrations is an area where the format has changed little over the years, and I know there are discussions happening to perhaps shake the tree a bit for this year. But is the presence/absence of any aspect of the show a real deal-breaker? Well, if there were no layouts or no traders (!) but is there a magic missing ingredient? I doubt it in principle.

For me and I would suggest most members who regularly attend, it's a case of 'this is my hobby, and my Society, and it's part of that to attend the annual Society show unless there's good reason not to'. But clearly not everyone thinks like that - and you can't force people to come. It would be nice to hear from those who don't typically attend if there is anything that could change (NOT the venue) that would make it more likely that they would come. If there isn't, that at least is one consideration that can be kicked back into the long grass. Here's another question - how many members who don't go to Scaleforum do go to Railex?

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I know of a few EM society members who go to Railex but not to Expo EM.

[Noel]

You make a good case, Rod, but the number of members attending, and the recent losses, suggest that the problem is real, and may well be unrelated to the venue. For a long time I felt as you do, but have now come to question that attitude of attending because its part of my hobby, although I acknowledge that most, at least, of the others in the area group I belong to probably don't agree with my current views.

For me, it is about the layouts, plus a minimal interest in the trade, as most of my limited wants can be obtained by other means. Demonstrations are largely irrelevant to me, simply because my preferred method of learning is from written/photographic sources, which I can then keep for future reference, not face to face.

Railex, I would suggest, is not particularly relevant, as a show for the general public is inevitably subject to different constraints, and has a different target market. Being a members show, albeit with public access, Scaleforum could perhaps more easily experiment with new ideas? Security is always an issue, but sufficient feedback exists within the Society to provide a quick indication of success or not in a way which is not available to most public shows, I would think.

Noel

[JFS]

I know of a few EM society members who go to Railex but not to Expo EM.

I don't think that was quite Rod's question David - the implication of the question being who would travel to Aylesbury for Railex, but not for Scaleforum.

Just in terms of magic ingredients or whatever, the only one I can think of would be something like "reputation" - I know of a number of people who used to go to "Manchester" just be cause it was "Manchester". But such reputations are easily lost.

I am still convinced that there are members who have so far stayed away from Aylesbury "on principle" and who use "difficult to get to" as an excuse - though that can be neither proven nor quantified. But they will come round in time - no location suits everyone. In terms of attracting non members, if they come once and like it they will come again. If they go to Railex and they like that, they may well come to Scaleforum.

But ultimately, there are far too many exhibitions, and to be frank, some of them are pretty rubbish and not a good advert for the hobby with far too many layouts of the "out of the box and on to the PECO Streamline" genre - which does not necessarily make them bad layouts: it just makes them too same-ish.

So, if a non-member had attended a few such shows and seen what was on offer, would that make them more, or less likely to come to Scaleforum - regardless of venue?


Best wishes,

[David Thorpe]

Living half way up Scotland as I do, there has to be something to make me really want to go to one of the Society shows. Due to its location in the deep south, Scaleforum has always been out of the question, but I have over the past few years gone along to Scalefour North, notwithstanding the fact that it is 311 miles from where I live as opposed to 187 from London and 200 from Bristol. I was a bit disappointed last year as i felt that it smacked just a bit too much of an ordinary model railway show, and this year I’m not at all sure that there’s enough there to justify the £250+ that it costs me in transport, accommodation and subsistence merely to attend, and I'll probably give it a miss.

Like several others (but not Noel!) I’m not hugely interested in layouts and I agree with much that Martin Goodall writes in the latest Scalefour News (191). One can see layouts aplenty at run of the mill exhibitions. OK, they may not be to P4, but some can nevertheless be very good indeed although even then they don’t often hold my interest for long. The type of layout that does attract me is the one where there is a rostered sequence of events of which the viewer is made aware. This can be done by a simple flip chart where the forthcoming event and its reasons is shown to the viewer - on some layouts this is done by a TV monitor. These are the layouts that really hold my attention, but sadly there don’t seem to be many of them around nowadays. And I need hardly add that layouts that don’t run well, unfortunately a rather too frequent occurrence, are a complete turn off.

Demonstrations I used to think really important, but in fact I’m not all the sure of their usefulness in their present form. Last year at Scalefour North demonstrators had tables along the aisle with seats in front of them and really only two or three people could properly watch at any one time. If you’re not one of these two or three, you just have to hope that you’ll come back when there is an empty seat. However, maybe its old age creeping up, but even when I do watch what is potentially a very useful demo, by the time I get home and eventually get modelling again I find that I’ve forgotten a lot of it. There are exceptions - two or three years ago at Scalefour North someone (sorry, name escapes me) gave me a very patient demo of Templot which gave me the confidence to subsequently plan my own layout using that extremely useful programme. Also of course we now have DVDs that can be very instructive and that we can watch at home while actually working on our models and there are many excellent modelling books. I think that the success of Missenden has shown that there are a lot of people who are prepared to pay good money for intensive hands-on instruction over several days, but I’m not sure of the usefulness of brief society demos.

The friendly social aspect - well, fine as long as you already know quite a lot of people but if you don’t, it’s not so friendly, at least so long as so many people take objection to wearing name badges. It’s long been a hobby horse of mine, but for a society show that’s meant to be friendly and sociable I believe that every member attending should be required to wear a name badge. Possibly I’m too shy, but I find it very difficult to strike up conversations with complete strangers whose identity I don’t know.

Which leaves the trade. This used to be one of the major factors behind my attending a show, but as several people have already indicated, the internet has now made it possible to get almost everything one needs without budging from one’s chair. Certainly it’s how I now do almost all my model railway shopping and if I was going to go the Scalefour North this year my shopping list would be very small.

And then there's the little bit of resentment I have that so much seems to be done for people living in the south of the UK and so little for those in the north. I appreciate that the biggest concentration of members live in the south, but does that really mean that they should therefore have Scaleforum on their doorsteps year after year while the rest of us subsidise it? And while more members live in the south, maybe that's because they see much more P4 down there - in Scotland we see very little of it and, with the honourable exception of the AGM two or three years ago, there is virtually no society involvement up here. Most Scots modellers therefore see very little P4 (there's virtually nothing about it in the mainstream magazines and it's rarely seen at shows), and as a result most aren't interested in it even if they've heard of it (I myself only became involved when I was living in Suffolk many years ago). That is reflected in membership figures; I've just wasted some good modelling time looking through the membership Bulletins in the last six Scalefour News (an excellent and inspiring magazine, I should add) and these recorded 86 new members as having joined the Society during that time. Only two were from Scotland.

I think it now quite possible that for the serious modeller the day of the traditional model railway show has now passed and a more radical rethink may be required. I very much liked Martin's idea of the "Scalefour Clubroom", for example. From a purely personal point of view I'd like to see Scalefour shows shared round the country, quite possibly in a very different format from the big shows we now have. At the risk of repeating myself from an earlier posting, I'd consider scrapping Scaleforum in its present form and replacing it with two or three much smaller local society shows in different parts of the country. These could be held over one or two days, three or four good layouts, some demonstrations, but very much social events where society members could get together and chat" (all wearing their name badges, of course!(

DT

[DougN]

David, I found your discussion interesting. The same could easily be written by any of the British modellers here in Australia not to join Scalefour. Distance can be a problem weather next door or around the world depending on your mobility.

To pick up a couple of points.
1 Name badges - bit like hats really ... not enough people wear them.
2 Chating to people you don't know. No matter how confronting it can be, this forum breaks down some of those barriers. Have your logo and DT on the name badge along with others means when some one you have corresponded with breaks down those barriers.
3 Distance/ inclination/ cost.... All a problem. I would suggest moving it to Singapore or Dubai so that the Aussies can make it easily. This is tongue in cheek by the way. I know it will never happen.
4 The make up of the show we have to agree that we have Layouts, Traders, demonstrators and a nattering area. I have read a fair bit on the mix being different to different people. Some like the layouts, others the demonstrators. (Note I did not mention food, drink, beer. The 3 main consumption types! )

As I wrote in S4News my interest is broken into seeing people who I have only met once or twice or corresponded with. Traders so I don't have to spend a fortune on postage and see what I am buying. (Still did forget to get a couple of things!) See Layouts that I will not get a opportunity to see in the flesh so to speak. (Will L, how can you get Knutsford into the mail for me?) I spent more time talking with every one than anything else specifically.

This is all about the distance and cost problem. Costing as it does around 3500AUD (1750quid) to get to and around the UK for only a week let alone the 30hours of travel each way (once 22hours in the air, 2 hours refueling, 2 hours pre departure, 1 hour travel from home to the airport and a couple of hours to accommodation in London, and an hour and a bit to the exhibition is taken into account)

Comming all that way really means you want to have exactly what you want to be there on the day but also being prepared to take what ever comes.

All just observations, though I do like the idea of the forum to sit and talk to people with a table and the things you bought along. I guess it is a change form the normal to make the members create what they want rather than the current fashion of everything pre organised and presented on a plate.

[Guy Rixon]

Concerning demonstrations, we need to decide whether they are for the members or the prospective members, assuming the latter to be less experienced in finescale.

As a beginner, it helped me to see basic demonstrations, but now I don't benefit from them: I've already learnt from them what I can learn by watching, as opposed to doing. For me, the demonstrations need to be something fairly advanced, or esoteric, or completely new. I suspect many members are in my position. So, we either have demonstrations to encourage new members; or different demonstration to inspire long-term members; or we have both and then we have a [i]lot[\i] of demonstrations.

What might work, for both camps, is to have designers demonstrate the use of their own products. It would be interesting, to me at least, to get more information on how a range of kits is supposed to be built, particularly where the printed instructions aren't much.

[grovenor-2685]

Concerning demonstrations, we need to decide whether they are for the members or the prospective members, assuming the latter to be less experienced in finescale.

Having been involved for the last coule of years in the demo stand specifically identified as for beginners, we have been trying to cover both.
My expeience was that demand for the beginners was not really enough to keep the demonstrator busy!

I my view is that, in the current format where the demonstrator talks to the 2 or 3 who sit opposite him at any time, the level of the demo is easily pitched at a level to suit the questionner, so I don't think there is really a need for a seperate beginners demo.
Keith

[Re6/6]

I would hope that the ‘location’ issue has run its course by now, suffice to say that wherever it is, it’s going to be the wrong venue for a lot of people. It is where it is now, so let’s finally put that one to bed.

There are always going to be those that won’t attend come what may and those who can’t for valid personal reasons. All things considered, it has been/is arranged by a hard working group who who have/had the thankless task of organizing S4um for all of us.

Despite many quality P4 delights that are always on show, it would seem that they will never be enough to attract the general modelling punters in order to get sufficient funds to cover the costs. Maybe it’s a case of the old cliché of ‘us and them’, it in itself is a tired old argument but it may well be still in the minds of some.

It has been asked by some what attracts those that do go every September. Meeting friends and acquaintances, fine layouts, good trade etc,. and a general feeling of well being amongst like-minded people is why I go.

Remembering the early shows at the City University and the gradual changes that have taken place since, perhaps it might be time to broaden our outlook now. I always (God willing!) go to S4um and Railex, and apart from the aforementioned delights of our show, Railex is always worth the effort of attending.

John

Risborough & District Model Railway Club attract three times more visitors to Railex than we do to ours. This must be down to the general public appeal of good ‘finescale’ exhibits. hence realising three times more money at the door.

My view is that it should change its format to a ‘high end’ finescale show (remember the legendary MRJ show) with say, 75% of P4 and the other 25% consist of examples from the very best of 7mm, 3.5mm, 4mm (EM) and 2mm. This would surely stir the interest of the general public. After all, as the membership attendance seems to be static, one way to make more money for the society is to get more punters in.

I know that it’s been suggested that we don’t want another ‘Railex’ but why not? One would hope that such a thing wouldn’t annoy the R&DMRC organisers. We wouldn’t clash with it as ours would be in the Autumn.

I feel that we would not necessarily lose the feel of the show put on for ‘us’ but ‘we’ don’t seem to be able to step up to the plate with better attendances.

If it was to be reduced to an ‘area’ gathering, although the venue would be cheaper, it probably wouldn’t bring in any more of the membership.

Judging by the usual attendance at Wells, a ‘mixed’ show of quality does seem to draw them in.

John

[David Bigcheeseplant]

As the Scalefour Society have a stand at Railex, why not ask those passing visitors if they attend Scalefourum, and if not why not, may well give you some pointers or answers on how to increase numbers.

[Jol Wilkinson]

How about a "layout walkabout" for the layouts operated from the rear? Operating stops for a while and the layout owners/builders meet interested parties at the front and walk/talks them through the layouts features/details. If done at differing and specified times for different layouts, then it would provide the interested modellers an opportunity to ask some questions that may not normally get aired.

[randallb]

Let me begin by unequivocally admitting that what follows are personal opinions...

I visited Wells for the first time last year and thoroughly enjoyed the day.

I couldn't quite bring myself to comment on S4Forum13 or 14 at Aylesbury either before or after, with the heated debate about location raging - it felt too disloyal to the few good folks prepared to spend their time organising an event on the behalf of the many. Travelling to Leatherhead has always been a pain - but no more than so than Wells; or Bracknell - and yet I have made the commitment to go to our main event yet not the others over recent year since regaining time & interest in modelling , and I go to Railex almost without fail each year... so for me, clearly location, location, location isn't my motivator.

I usually buy a few bits, and stock up the kit mountain at whichever of the shows I'm at - and I am not partisan about my spend, though I have tended to spend more at Leatherhead / Aylesbury - so for me the distinction of the main S4 show has always been two-fold; the quality of the layouts and their operation, and the diverse nature of the demonstrators.

One of the facets of Leatherhead which I found lacking at Aylesbury has not been the quality of the demonstrators - these were exemplary last year - but rather the environment. I struggled to hear and focus on the demonstrators last year, because of the background noise and this left me leaving the show with the feeling that whatever we had gained from the open isles and floorspace, we had lost the intimacy of Leatherhead.

I like being able to have a decent natter with traders, I like lurking over the shoulder of demonstrators - and I really I do appreciate layouts where good modelling abounds which are able to run their stock - whether fiddle yard to fiddle or roundy-roundy. What puts me off are vast expanses of empty track; fingers from the sky prodding aimlessly; and particularly those layouts where trains continually stall, derail, or all of the latter.

So for me, the likes of Knutsford, Clutton, Lowburn Park, Halifax Kings Cross, Harton Gill, Burntisland, Portchullin, Elcot Road, Blackgill, and many others (please forgive me if I haven't mentioned you) over the years give me the inspiration to continue to dream that I could aspire to producing something similar. However, I am not transfixed by gauge - and would contend that much admiration and time has been spent in front of the various 'visiting guest gauges' such as Wansbeck Road, Quai 87, and others.

My view is therefore that if we as a Society aspire to a cost neutral event, that we need to broaden our appeal, and make it a finescale event (akin to Railex)- but at which we maintain a cadre of demonstrators focussed upon our gauge with a spread of topics - but somehow recapture the 'church hall' feel of the Mole Barn and Upper Lounge within the context of whichever venue we rent.

[David Thorpe]

My wife's hobby is basically anything to do with yarn - spinning, knitting, weaving, etc. Somewhat to my surprise there are a number of very large "yarn" shows held all over the country during the year, and she goes to some of them. A bit like our Scalefour counterparts, these shows provide inspiration, shopping, socialising and learning.

Where their learning differs is that while there are demonstrations - usually given by traders to demonstrate their wares to potential buyers - there are also workshops. These are very much "hands on", can last from anything between 2 and 4 hours, cater for between 6 and 20 people depending on the topic, and cost money to attend, usually between £10 and £30 although that often includes materials. You book a place before the show and are often given some "homework", ie preparatory work to do before coming, and are also advised what to bring. Only those who have pre-booked can attend and I understand that it can be pretty intensive. I cannot help but think that something along these lines would be excellent at our shows, not necessarily to replace but as an addition to demonstrations. Snags I suppose would be accommodating them as they would require separate rooms or at least a partitioned part of the main hall, and finding people willing to lead the workshops. There might also be equipment difficulties. I'm also not sure whether railway modellers would be prepared to pay up to £10 an hours for attending such demos - plenty of knitters are!

Notwithstanding such possible snags, I'd like to think that something along these lines might be worth thinking about.

DT

[Andy W]

The non attendance of members at Scalefourum is a mystery to me. I always enjoy it enormously - the demos; layouts; traders; chats etc etc. It takes a lot to get an old recluse like me out of the house, but I consider our annual bash unmissable.

[Terry Bendall]

Where their learning differs is that while there are demonstrations - usually given by traders to demonstrate their wares to potential buyers - there are also workshops.

Workshops have been done in the past. Some years back, before I took over responsibility for the show organisation there was a whole day soldering workshop. In 2010 we had one on converting RTR loco and one on building and Exactoscale turnout kit. Both of these took place on the Saturday only and lasted for 3 hours and there were 6 people in each. In 2011 we had workshops on chassis construction and using CSBs. These were also 3 hours or so and took place one on both days. The CSB ones were quite popular and there we 10 in each one but only 5 in the chassis construction ones. The numbers attending probably justified the effort and cost of organising them but only just. All of these took place when we were at Leatherhead and we could have the extra room at no cost. In 2012 the Leisure Centre said we would have to pay for the room used so we changed things to make them Helpdesks in the hall where anyone could turn up and have a go. These have happened ever since and there will be a few more this year.

Snags I suppose would be accommodating them as they would require separate rooms or at least a partitioned part of the main hall, and finding people willing to lead the workshops. There might also be equipment difficulties. I'm also not sure whether railway modellers would be prepared to pay up to £10 an hours for attending such demos

Exactly.

Terry Bendall