Scaleforum 2014

[chris_mccarthy]

Sorry if I've missed this in a thread somewhere but will there be shuttle buses from/to Aylesbury Sation this year - and if so to what timetable, please?

Thanks very much,

Chris McCarthy

[Terry Bendall]

Sorry if I've missed this in a thread somewhere but will there be shuttle buses from/to Aylesbury Sation this year - and if so to what timetable, please?

Yes buses will be run, even though the take up last year was rather low. In spite of this we feel that running a bus is required but the continuation of the service after this year will be reviewed after this year's show. Use it or loose it!

The timetable will be in the next issue of Scalefour News, on here and on the web site just as soon as the times have been checked out.

Terry Bendall

[DougN]

OK well then Terry I will use the bus!

[chris_mccarthy]

Thanks, Terry.

FWIW, I feel it essential to have a direct transport link to this venue, which is relatively awkward otherwise to reach by public transport.

Scaleforum is our flagship event and people who rely on public transport would be somewhat disenfranchised, not to say less inclined to attend, unless a direct link is provided.

I thought, in fact, that easy transport was one consideration when deciding on a new venue for the event so I feel it would be quite a significant retrograde step to drop this service - to the extent that it might throw into some question the essential suitability of the venue for this, our national, event.

I do hope this point is kept in mind for 2015 and thereafter.

All best wishes,

Chris

[David Bigcheeseplant]

At Railex which is at the same venue in May we have seen our vintage bus usage grow year on year, with some trips running full to capacity on the Saturday. it does take a few years to get people into the habit of using the bus, plus this year at Railex we were selling entrance tickets and programmes on the bus too which really went down well.

David

[Steve Carter]

As someone who uses public transport to attend both Railex and Scaleforum at Stoke Mandeville I am grateful for the provision of a shuttle bus between Aylesbury station and the stadium.

The bus for Railex is very popular and I experienced a full-up bus this year !

Terry has given a 'use it or loose it' warning for Scaleforum. I can understand that providing a shuttle bus is an extra cost to bear so I hope that attendees do make use of this facility. However, I cannot find any mention of providing a shuttle bus in the publicity I have seen for Scaleforum so far?
I hope this will be publicised widely between now and the Scaleforum weekend. If people don't know its there how can they consider using it?

See you on the bus.

Steve

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I tend to agree with Steve if there is a bus it needs to be promoted in all publicity flyers from the time the event is first published, I don't know how much the Scalefourm bus is, but the Railex bus costs us a few hundred pounds, so unless it pays it was on people using it there is no point in running it.

David

[Phil O]

Hi

I have visited both Railex and last years Scaleforum and I always use the bus, as I travel up from Plymouth by train. I was considering using the car this year as there had been no publicity on the bus as the return walk from the station plus walking round the show is getting near the limits of my endurance. I am glad I can now revert to the train, much more civilized.

Phil

[DaveHarris]

I agree in various parts with all the previous comments. Having suffered a stroke I also find the walk to be 'a little too much' both ways and then a day at the show. In addition to more publicity could I suggest that consideration be given to providing, in agreement with the bus operator, a prominent well marked box on the bus for contributions towards its running cost, in addition to the (last year) not very prominent box at the show?

[Terry Bendall]

The various commenst about the bus are noted and I fully agree with the need for it. However, as has been pointed out, there is a cost involved.

The publicity for Scaleforum is gathering momentum and the availability of the bus will be mentioned. Yes it is a good idea to sell tickets and show guides on the bus but that needs someone to take on the job. It is unlikely that a member would want to do that since it would stop them seeing the show but if anyone knows of someone not interested in the show who would be prepared to do the job, or perhaps several people who would share the duty, please let me know at scaleforum@scalefour.org.

As whilst in the asking mode, if there is anyone who would like to help with stewarding, please also get in touch. We will assist with travel costs of needed, but unfortunately that does not mean that those who come from the other side of the world can get their fare paid in exchange for stewarding. Sorry about that but I am sure everyone appreciates the position. For those who live say within 40 miles or so of the venue and are willing to help we will assist with travel costs.

In the mean time I need to get back to servicing the stock for Elcot Road which will be at Wells this coming weekend and hope to see lots of you there at what promises to be an excellent show as always.

Terry Bendall

[martin goodall]

In addition to the shuttle bus, there is a service bus from Aylesbury which stops at the shopping parade on the east side of the railway (about 20 yards from the Railex shuttle bus terminus). The sports centre is only 3 to 4 minutes' walk from there, by the footpath under the railway.

I don't have the details to hand, but I seem to recall it is a reasonably frequent service, and I recall using it on one occasion. The service starts from the Bus Station (over the road from the railway station in Aylesbury).

[Steve Carter]

Thanks for the advice Martin.

I've just looked it up and it's an Arriva service number 300 that runs between Aylesbury and High Wycombe via Princes Risborough. 3 an hour on Saturday and hourly Sunday.

Stop for Stoke Manderville stadium is shown as 'Aylesbury, Stadium Approach on Manderville Road (B4443)' and then about a 5 minute walk?

Link for info http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/serviceInfor ... x?id=12508

Hope it helps?

Steve

[David Bigcheeseplant]

The 300 route is not the same as the 50 which goes to Wendover once an hour and the bus stop is by the shops on the other side of the railway, close to where we have our Railex bus stop, the 300 is the best service bus as it's every twenty minutes on a Saturday and once an hour on Sunday. A taxi from the town centre railway station should cost around £3-4

[Chris Mitton]

Hi all

Terry and RailexDavid are both spot-on here - the problem with the bus last year was that quite a lot of people wanted it, a somewhat smaller number used it, but hardly anyone bothered to make a contribution towards its (considerable) cost (several hundred pounds as David says). As I understand it we can't charge a fare for complicated legal reasons, but there is nothing to stop the members / visitors who benefit from its convenience from dropping a suitable donation into a bucket, whether on the bus or in the show. Those who don't should examine their consciences: if the cost of the bus divided by the number of non-paying passengers comes to a fiver or more, they are effectively depriving the show of their ticket money - Terry does work miracles as we all know, but he can't conjure a show out of thin air. Members already get the ridiculous bargain of an entire weekend's entertainment / inspiration / socialising (modify to taste), including their significant other if that's what they want, for the price of two pints of beer (mind you, even a fiver is an exaggeration: what the Society sees, by the time George Osborne and various banks have taken their cut, isn't even four!), so I really don't think a couple of quid is too much to ask for being dropped off at the door.

So, as the one who has to balance the books, I look forward to a full bucket this year - otherwise it'll be taxis galore in 2015.....

Regards
TreasurerChris

[dclift]

I think a box in a very prominent position either at the entrance to the bus or the entrance to the show would encourage everyone to pay. I walked from the town and back on the Saturday last year to get the exercise but took the bus to the stadium on the Sunday, fully intending to make a donation, but, in the excitement of being back at the show and talking to friends, I forgot to do so until after the show had closed. Had I been reminded by seeing the collection box, I would happily have paid. There were probably others as forgetful as me. I have resolved to make a double donation next time, but, alas, it will not be this year.

David Clift,
Melbourne, Australia.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Charging for the bus is a minefield for legal reasons at Railex we promote it as a free bus, even though we do get people offering money we have to refuse payment.

Due to the amount of people we have at Railex (around three times as many as Scalefourum,) we do promote the bus as the best way to visit the show as parking at the stadium and overspill can get very busy. The routemaster we use is lucky to get 9 miles to a gallon, so add just the fuel cost plus hire and you can see providing a free service to visitors costs the organisers of a show quite a bit of money! as I said before bus use has increased year on year hopefully it will be the same for Scalefourum.

David

[Alan Turner]

I visited both Railex and Scale4um and used the provided bus for both.

However the Railex bus goes from the car park, is easily identifiable and actually, for a short distance, a "bus" is much the better vehicle. Easy to get into, especially for disabled passengers, and allows standing.

The S4F bus was actually a coach (more difficult to get into and doesn't allow standing) and it did not go from an easily identifiable location. In fact there was not much information at all about its availability (once you were at the station) and where it went from; it simply was not obvious.

So suggestions: hire an actual bus (just an ordinary public transport bus) rather than a coach. Go from the car park or if that is not possible make sure there is a large sign saying where and when.

regards

Alan

[Steve Carter]

Well both Terry and Treasurer Chris have made it clear that the bus has to pay or it goes!

Message received gents and I hope it is understood by all those looking to make use of this very helpful facility.

Whatever next, paying for car parking?

Applying simple business logic to running a shuttle bus may seem sensible but I sincerely hope that we don’t get to a situation where the same logic has to be applied to the Scalefourum event?

I came away from the AGM this year, where this was debated, encouraged that our Committee were aware of the problems and intent on managing the cost of Scaleforum so that we could all continue to enjoy our ‘flagship’ event in the future without bankrupting the Society!

I look forward to seeing many members (and even more non-members!) using the bus and clutching their pile of coins ready to throw them into the large marked donations bucket which I trust will be in a prominent position for all to see?

Steve

[John McAleely]

The S4F bus was actually a coach (more difficult to get into and doesn't allow standing) and it did not go from an easily identifiable location. In fact there was not much information at all about its availability (once you were at the station) and where it went from; it simply was not obvious.

So suggestions: hire an actual bus (just an ordinary public transport bus) rather than a coach. Go from the car park or if that is not possible make sure there is a large sign saying where and when.

So my understanding of the other variables is that bus vs coach impacts where the vehicle drops off. The bus Railex use (all busses?) can't make it to the door of the venue, whereas the clearances on the coach mean it can.

I noted that they did both depart from different places at Aylesbury, (I also used both last year), I'm not aware of a reason for that.

Given that both locations are near the station exit, the coach allows the scaleforum service to be door to door, but (as you note) perhaps harder to use for some. Of course the walk for Railex is inconvenient for some.

I can see the appeal for a less specialised show that a 'vintage bus' provides (I enjoyed the railex bus experience), but I don't see the need for it at Scaleforum, where how we get there need be less of the overall experience. I liked the fact that the scaleforum service was door to door.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Chiltern Railways cone off an area of the station car park for the Railex bus, as they see it as visitors using our bus are also using their trains. we also have a bus stop sign in the car park with bus times and other info. plus plenty of signage from the station to the bus stop even though some people still don't manage to see it!

Anyway I will be at Scalefourum with the Wild Swan stand and shall be walking or using my bike to get to the stadium over the weekend after parking the van up.

David

[John McAleely]

Chiltern Railways cone off an area of the station car park for the Railex bus, as they see it as visitors using our bus are also using their trains. we also have a bus stop sign in the car park with bus times and other info. plus plenty of signage from the station to the bus stop even though some people still don't manage to see it!

Ah yes, that jogs my memory. The Scaleforum bus went from near other busses (so was where some people expect it). The Railex bus went from a well signed location (so was where some people expect it)... I sense two right answers, both with pitfalls for some

[Alan Turner]

The S4F bus was actually a coach (more difficult to get into and doesn't allow standing) and it did not go from an easily identifiable location. In fact there was not much information at all about its availability (once you were at the station) and where it went from; it simply was not obvious.

So suggestions: hire an actual bus (just an ordinary public transport bus) rather than a coach. Go from the car park or if that is not possible make sure there is a large sign saying where and when.

So my understanding of the other variables is that bus vs coach impacts where the vehicle drops off. The bus Railex use (all busses?) can't make it to the door of the venue, whereas the clearances on the coach mean it can.

I noted that they did both depart from different places at Aylesbury, (I also used both last year), I'm not aware of a reason for that.

Given that both locations are near the station exit, the coach allows the scaleforum service to be door to door, but (as you note) perhaps harder to use for some. Of course the walk for Railex is inconvenient for some.

I can see the appeal for a less specialised show that a 'vintage bus' provides (I enjoyed the railex bus experience), but I don't see the need for it at Scaleforum, where how we get there need be less of the overall experience. I liked the fact that the scaleforum service was door to door.

The reason I suspect is the vintage bus is a double decker. I said use a normal service bus, so that would be a single decker. That is no bigger than a coach (probably smaller) so can get where the coach got. It also has low entry, and probably kneeling so that helps everyone get on and off.

regards

Alan

[David Bigcheeseplant]

The reason we use the car park is we are able to have a dedicated area, We can't really park the bus at the bus stop for too long as it get in the way of the service busses.

We use the stop on the other side of the railway at Railex for too reasons, the first is due to the camber of the road the rear platform on the bus is about an inch off the ground load it up with people and it would ground out and damage the bus (yes we did try it on a dry run!) I am not too sure if a bus without a rear platform work work either. The other reason is with so much traffic in the stadium car park with people trying to park adding a bus in to that does not seem a good idea if you get held up and are trying to run to a timetable.

Anyway with a new venue there are always way to improve year on year, I am sure Terry has used some Railex ideas and I am sure if Scalefourum had a way of doing something I liked I would use it for Railex.

[Terry Bendall]

I visited both Railex and Scale4um and used the provided bus for both.

However the Railex bus goes from the car park, is easily identifiable and actually, for a short distance, a "bus" is much the better vehicle. Easy to get into, especially for disabled passengers, and allows standing.

The S4F bus was actually a coach (more difficult to get into and doesn't allow standing) and it did not go from an easily identifiable location. In fact there was not much information at all about its availability (once you were at the station) and where it went from; it simply was not obvious.

So suggestions: hire an actual bus (just an ordinary public transport bus) rather than a coach. Go from the car park or if that is not possible make sure there is a large sign saying where and when.

David has the use of a vintage bus for RailEx which is easier to spot but David has mentioned the downside of the adverse camber on the car park approach. As far as I am concerned it is a lot easier to hire a coach than a single deck service bus and the company that we are using are used to driving right up to the door of the stadium since they frequently take school parties to the stadium to use the swimming facilities. There is also a drop off bay there.

The coach company cannot use the station forecourt for the pick up so they get as close as they can. The coach is operated by Heyfordian Coaches and will be in their livery and it will have a notice on the windscreen to state that it is ther Scaleforum bus service. I will ask the company if they can provide a picture that can be posted on our web site to aid recognition.

Details of directions to the show, and the bus timetable will be on the web site just as soon as webmaster John has the time, and they will be in the show guide. The observent car drivers who came last year will have noticed the signs on all approach roads to Aylesbury which state "For Stoke Mandeville Stadium follow A&E. This year we are helping those who did not see the signs by putting up direction signs for car users in the last mile.

As David says close to 3000 people manage to find their way to RailEx. Hopefully our visitors will be able to do the same.

Terry Bendall

[DougN]

Terry what would the implications be if you did get 3000 through the door and if a lot of people did use the bus service ?

No doubt it would make the accounting extremely easy. As I have mentioned I will be coming along along with a future brother in law. I will make sure that we use the bus service, which will be as near to the first of the day as I can arrange.

Regarding the bus, I have seen at some theme parks there is always an issue of the first bus after closing being full to the brim with some hanging on for dear life (wish I could draw a cartoon of what I imagine ) I hope there is a couple of runs before and a couple more runs after to clear the crowds! If the bus does take off this could be a serious consideration.