Scaleforum 2013

[Paul Willis]

PS: More ideas:---Any Non Member who joins the society at the show gets his entrance fee refunded?

Hi John,

This already happens, and has done at both Scaleforum and Scalefour North for a number of years.

It's even specifically advertised at shows by our indefatigable Membership Secretary...

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman.

[Metropolitan]

This entire 17 page thread has become an exercise in market research. Having followed it from the beginning, the only reason for not attending that I can think of, which has not been mentioned so far, is sheer cussedness; an attribute applicable only to very few of those who share their views on these Fora.

...

Fair enough. However, I cannot agree that the reason that most members do not attend the show is cussedness? So few members actually post on here that I was trying to think of a way to communicate with those that don't..... Can you think of another way?

Kind Regards

John A

[Metropolitan]

PS: More ideas:---Any Non Member who joins the society at the show gets his entrance fee refunded?

Hi John,

This already happens, and has done at both Scaleforum and Scalefour North for a number of years.

It's even specifically advertised at shows by our indefatigable Membership Secretary...

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman.

Ah! Thanks for the clarification Paul.

(I don't suppose there is any chance you could arrange for Scaleforum to be merged with a Bike Track Weekend at Brands is there??!!! Hmmmmm..... I drool at the thought! . I've got loads of spare parts for my old A65 Lightning that would go down a treat at the bring and buy.....! )

Cheers John A

[jim s-w]

.............. On one hand you are decrying that members should feel obliged to attend and yet on the other you would, apparently, prefer it to be a members only event.

It's a meaningless comparrison.

Cheers

Jim

Actually, Jim, I was not in any way decrying that members should be encouraged to attend. That was some one else so please be careful. And the very last thing I would like to see is Scaleforum as a members only event so again I would be grateful if you would not put words in my mouth that I have not said. Please read my posts again. The comparison I was trying to make was one of Atmosphere? I have some sympathy with David L-T's frustration at times. No one is even allowed to think outside the box without being condemned. And your ideas for increasing the numbers next year are what exactly????????? I will make no apology for coming up with suggestions no matter how silly they may be so you need to get used to it.

Regards
John

I never said that you were decrying that members should be encouraged to attend, I said that you were decrying that members should feel obliged to attend. I believe that is correct?

I also only said that you would apparently prefer scaleforum to be a members only event as that is what rmweb is and part of what makes you like it. I didn't say that you said that. Perhaps you would care to re-read my post too?

Cheers

Jim

[LesGros]

John A wrote:

...Fair enough. However, I cannot agree that the reason that most members do not attend the show is cussedness? So few members actually post on here that I was trying to think of a way to communicate with those that don't..... Can you think of another way?

John,
Like Jim S-W, I too suggest the you "read my post again"!
If you suspend your apparent sense of grievance for a moment, you may, perhaps, comprehend what I wrote

...the only reason for not attending that I can think of, which has not been mentioned so far...

Where does it say Most members? And what part of:

...cussedness; an attribute applicable only to very few of those who share their views on these Fora.

do you fail to understand?

Your persistent misinterpretation of what other posters have written undermines your case, and does little to enhance your credibility.

As to communication with all members: Surely, that is the primary function of the Scalefour News, complete with Scaleforum guide which dropped through our letterboxes recently?

[Martin Wynne]

Another new feature needed at Scaleforum is a boxing ring.

[Metropolitan]

John A wrote:

...Fair enough. However, I cannot agree that the reason that most members do not attend the show is cussedness? So few members actually post on here that I was trying to think of a way to communicate with those that don't..... Can you think of another way?

John,
Like Jim S-W, I too suggest the you "read my post again"!
If you suspend your apparent sense of grievance for a moment, you may, perhaps, comprehend what I wrote

...the only reason for not attending that I can think of, which has not been mentioned so far...

Where does it say Most members? And what part of:

...cussedness; an attribute applicable only to very few of those who share their views on these Fora.

do you fail to understand?

Your persistent misinterpretation of what other posters have written undermines your case, and does little to enhance your credibility.

As to communication with all members: Surely, that is the primary function of the Scalefour News, complete with Scaleforum guide which dropped through our letterboxes recently?

I have no grievance at all? And I fail to understand nothing that you wrote. Methinks the misinterpretation is on your part to be honest. And as I said: Can you think of another way to get feedback from the wider membership? If so lets hear it? I am all ears.

Cheers

John A

[Russ Elliott]

Well, I had a fantastic day, and I quickly dispelled my "This feels like Railex" feeling (which in itself is high praise, actually) and got into the "Scaleforum" mode. I thought the number of layouts was large, although I hesitate to say that because I don't want Terry to use it as an excuse for less next time (!), but put it this way, the number was certainly more than sufficient to satisfy my curiosity and interests, but in that context, I'm one of these nosey types who enjoys seeing the back of layouts as much as the front (inspecting the construction of lighting pelmets, baseboard undergubbins, etc), and maybe there is some mileage in future hall layout plans for the notion that there is enough sidespace on layouts that would facilitate nipping round the back (subject of course to layout operator permission, but I've always found Scaleforum layout owners to be very receptive to such a request).

I was in two minds about the demonstrator geography. The wonderful Leatherhead glasshouse light level, probably Leatherhead's only residual USP, is unfortunately no longer with us, but it could get very crowded along each side of the Leatherhead demo grouping, and in that respect, I thought the greater demonstrator dispersal at Aylesbury was a good idea, but I got the impression some of them were, or perhaps felt, a bit 'isolated' as a consequence. Not sure whether an ideal solution exists at all. But could some demonstrators benefit from some high-level illumination?

I certainly appreciated the larger aisle spaces at Aylesbury, where ad hoc conversations could take place without disturbing the general 'circulation'. Maybe a few chairs grouped in small clumps could be a good idea where members could indulge in their chats, or rest their feet for a while. We perhaps need an equivalent of the role provided by the Leatherhead patio. Nattering is an essential component of Scaleforum.

That all said, congrats to Terry and his crew for adapting to a new location and space so seamlessly.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

[

A cloakroom area in which to leave coats, bags, parcels, etc., to avoid having to lug them around with you all day. This is my biggest single gripe about many exhibitions nowadays. There was a time when almost all public venues provided such facilities.

Martin.

There is no clockroom at the stadium although there are lockers down the corridor free with a £1 deposit were bags coats can be left.

[Metropolitan]

I never said that you were decrying that members should be encouraged to attend, I said that you were decrying that members should feel obliged to attend. I believe that is correct?

I also only said that you would apparently prefer scaleforum to be a members only event as that is what rmweb is and part of what makes you like it. I didn't say that you said that. Perhaps you would care to re-read my post too?

Cheers

Jim

Well as I said. What exactly are your ideas for Scaleforum next year in order to increase the numbers? None at all?

The point of floating ideas is that 99% won't work but maybe, just maybe one will. But if no one says nowt, nowt will happen.

Regards
John A

[jim s-w]

Hi All

Surely there are essentially 2 types of members in the society. Those who go to UK modelling shows and those who dont. If people dont go to/like shows then they probably have absolutely zero interest in scalefour events too. Not a lot of point asking them really

The people we need opinions off are those who go to shows but dont go to scalefour events. What is it that makes them not go when they are happy to go to other shows? Perhaps its something the roadshow bods can discuss with the members they meet?

Cheers

Jim

[jim s-w]

Well as I said. What exactly are your ideas for Scaleforum next year in order to increase the numbers? None at all?

I guess you think that because I haven't bothered to discuss anything with you personally? Why would I when I can talk to Terry directly?

Cheers

Jim

[martin goodall]

This thread is getting increasingly bizarre.

What on earth is it all about?

I enjoyed Scaleforum again this year. I haven't missed a single one in over 35 years.

Layouts vary in quality and interest from year to year, but there is much more to Scaleforum than the layouts - it is not, and was never intended to be just a 'model railway exhibtion'.

The new venue is fine so far as I am concerned. (You may recall that there was much whingeing when Scaleforum moved to Leatherhead, because it was "on the wrong side of London".)

Access by rail may become a bit easier in a few year's time, when services are extended north of Aylebsury to Bletchley and Oxford, but it is hardly inaccessible even now.

I don't think we should be too worried about numbers. I believe the financial outcome is likely to have been better than in the last year or two at Leatherhead.

Most traders seem to have been reasonably happy with their takings. (There are bound to be one or two exceptions, which may not be influenced by the show itself.) Sunday is always quieter, but I have always thought it worhwhile to go on both days.

So - a vote of thanks to all the organising team, the exhibitors and demonstrators and the traders. (Don't take too much notice of the nay-sayers)

And roll on Scaleforum 2014.

[LesGros]

John,

...I have no grievance at all? And I fail to understand nothing that you wrote... ... Can you think of another way to get feedback from the wider membership? If so lets hear it? I am all ears.

I wonder what is the point of you being "all ears" when you continue to demonstrate an inability to correctly comprehend written English.

Edit: I have just read Martin's post, received as I was composing my reply to Metropolitan:

This thread is getting increasingly bizarre.

I quite agree.

[jim s-w]

I don't think we should be too worried about numbers. I believe the financial outcome is likely to have been better than in the last year or two at Leatherhead.

Spot on Martin

Despite some obsessing about it it doesn't really matter - I can see why the organisers are interested as it matters a lot to them but as long as Scaleforum doesn't bankrupt the society more visitors is not actually a good thing from the viewpoint of a paying punter. Its certainly the easiest show i've been to to get round in a long while and compared to the other shows the feeling of not being crammed in or jostled around was one of the highlights. Indeed trying to have a chat with Tim Shackleton on the Missenden stand earlier in the year was nigh on impossible due to the lack of room.

Cheers

Jim

[Mike Garwood]

Right, so Scaleforum 2014 in Aylesbury, would those in the know care to comment?

Boys, get a grip, no matter where the show is held there will always be some who will not attend, for a myriad of reasons. Figuring out why is redundant, all we - the collective we - can do is tempt the member to attend by offering the best available. Terry and his team delivered that in spades. So can we quit the rhetoric that has been spawned on this thread! It has accomplished nothing!

Bloody well done Terry and carry on!

Mike

[Metropolitan]

John,

I wonder what is the point of you being "all ears" when you continue to demonstrate an inability to correctly comprehend written English.

I was expecting some ideas from you not more insults? But it would seem you have none?

PS: I am just a builder and so maybe written English is not my strong point for which I humbly apologise . But the Bleeding Obvious is!!!!

John A

[Paul Willis]

Right, so Scaleforum 2014 in Aylesbury, would those in the know care to comment?

Without wanting to tease, of course there will be a write-up of the Show in the next issue of the News.

The good, the not-so-good, the ugly, and the chips. Don't ask what will be in it, as it hasn't even started being written yet. Don't ask about attendance, as the sums are still being done (no, they're not complex, but some of us have day job).

However I promise that the story will be told, and as many have said it will be a good one. The feedback has been useful as well, and will be considered properly by the Committee when we next meet.

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman

[grovenor-2685]

But could some demonstrators benefit from some high-level illumination?

I guess last year at Leatherhead I was in one of the darker spots, but one thing I noticed this year was the very good lighting level to the extent that I only turned my desk lamp on to show it to people. The hall got my thumbs up from that angle.
Some comments/ideas follw and please don't take them as criticising anyone, the organisers did a great job.
I agree that a socialising 'balcony equivalent' would be nice and more chairs in general. And perhaps the guide and ads if we do any* could mention the various facilities, such as lockers instead of a cloakroom, I have used them in the past forRailex but had forgotten until David mentioned it above and I don't remember seeing it in the publicity.
With Scalefour News and this forum members should not need ads. But we might get more non-members (ie potential members) if we did advertise in appropriate places such as MRJ. We usually have in the past and whilst the Vice chairman did a great job with the editorial there was no actual ad and hence no details of opening times, admission prices etc. Just a big full page ad for Expo EM North.
For the Sunday we may have lost out a bit because of the reduced rail service and we seemed to leave it to each persons own devices to discover the problem and look up alternatives, or did I just not notice?
Lectures and seminars seem to normally be popular and this year it seemed that Jim's talks were an unadvertised afterthought, did we lose some attendees who would have come if they had known about it in time.
At least once at Leatherhead, recent enough to be since the refurb we tried a hands on seminar, was the feedback negative that it did not continue?
Are these the sort of things that attract people?
The other facility that I felt was not made as much of as maybe it could be was the test track, I suggest a blackboard that could be used to show what is currently running and also to allow people to book slots.
Regards
Keith

[David Thorpe]

I didn't go to Scaleforum - in fact, I've never been to either Leatherhead or Aylesbury, although back in the long distant past, when I lived in Suffolk, I went to (I think) the City University. Back in those days i had a much lower membership number than I do now. Distance and expense militate against my attendance at the southern shows, though I do make an annual pilgrimage to Scalefour North. That's a great little show that I enjoy very much indeed.

What might encourage me to come to the Deep South in September? Well, it's an old topic, but name badges crop up. Some of you have mentioned the Scalefour Atmosphere, the way it's like a club where you can meet up with friends and share your railway experiences. Well, it's not like that if you don't know anyone by appearance, even although you may have chatted numerous times to them on the forum. I'd still like everyone to be given a badge (not a scrappy bit of sticky paper) to fill in and wear. I am aware that some people object to this but do not understand why that should be the case at what is essentially a Society flagship event, and I really feel it smacks of selfish cliquery (new word?) to exclude so many people. I'm pretty sure that If I knew who people were, Scaleforum, (or Scalefour North) would be even more enjoyable as far as I'm concerned.

As to what should be at the show, I'd like to see more practical demonstrations. What I hope to get from the Scalefour shows more than the run-of-the-mill model railway shows is the knowledge and ability to improve my own skills, and there's nothing like practical, hands-on demonstrations for doing that. The trouble of course with demonstrations is getting people to do them, and ensuring that everyone who wants to participate in them gets a chance to do so. Popular demonstrations are often crowded out, with the fortunate two or three sitting at the table, with others craning their heads over them to see what's going on, so perhaps more room could be given to demos at the expense of layouts. I'm not particularly interested in lectures as such.

Almost as much as demonstrations i like to see a good representation of niche traders, and i think that the Society shows already excel in that respect.

I'm not really too fussed about there being a lot of layouts - you can see lots of layouts, including some really good ones, at lots of shows. Obviously we should have a fair showing of P4 layouts, as they can and do provide inspiration, and their operators are inevitably very helpful as well as being generous with their knowledge. But while it may seem parochial I'm not really interested in seeing layouts in other gauges or scales - you can do that at other shows. Up here where I live it's a rare treat to see a P4 layout, and when I do travel hundreds of miles to a Scalefour event, I really don't want to see space given to layouts of other gauges or scales - I'd rather see that space given over to demonstrations.

And like others, I do very much appreciate a place to sit down and have a chat and a rest (and, ideally, a pint of real ale as well).

DT

[Metropolitan]

Well as I said. What exactly are your ideas for Scaleforum next year in order to increase the numbers? None at all?

I guess you think that because I haven't bothered to discuss anything with you personally? Why would I when I can talk to Terry directly?

Cheers

Jim

Ah! I see! Your ideas are secret! My God that's got me guessing!!

Regards
John A

[Rod Cameron]

Some layouts at normal table height with a row of chairs in front them. This is standard procedure for the demonstrators, so why not the layouts? What's the difference? Why do we have to stand up all day?

How about some layouts sited beneath the gallery so that they can be viewed (sitting down) from there?

[jim s-w]

Ah! I see! Your ideas are secret! My God that's got me guessing!!

Not really John

Just no reason to involve you and given that myself and Les have had to explain things umpteen times are you really surprised?

Jim

[Will L]

..More ideas:---Any Non Member who joins the society at the show gets his entrance fee refunded?

It is already the case that the extra £3 that non members pay on entry gets refunded if they join the society at the show.

Will

[Tim V]

A much later closing time (possibly balanced by a later opening). It's no fun having to set off before dawn if you have a fair way to travel and want to have time to see the whole show properly. Much the best feature of the old Manchester show was the Friday evening opening, where a relaxed club atmosphere developed quite unlike the rest of the weekend. Opening Scaleforum on the Friday evening might not be feasible, but why not stay open (or reopen after a break) on the Saturday? Perhaps for members only after say 6pm?

Regrettably, once again, it was "Out all Out" immediately the show closed on Saturday.

As an exhibitor, this is possibly the only time one gets to catch up on repairs/problems over the day.

And no, the fact it opens early on Sunday is only second best. One goes out that evening, worrying about that problem, or maybe forgetting about it the next day. Not conducive to a restful night for the exhibitor.