Air Brush Recommendation

Products you use that you would like to recommend.
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Knuckles
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Knuckles » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:39 pm

I wear the el cheapo white disposable ones.
I cannot however help but think they are chocolate fireboxes in disguise.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.com/
Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

SCC Price list (7/4/22)
https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf

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Andy W
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Andy W » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:37 am

I can only echo that using a PROPER mask is ESSENTIAL. A few years back I met a couple of chaps in their mid thirties who painted fighter jets for the RAF using cellulose spray paint. Both were suffering from early onset Parkinson's disease. The odds on that being a coincidence are astronomical. Don't risk inhaling paint. It's VERY dangerous.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

martinm

Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby martinm » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:41 am

I wear the el cheapo white disposable ones.
I cannot however help but think they are chocolate fireboxes in disguise.

Unfortunately you're right!

They are not designed to filter fume, only particles and they can only do that if they fit. Really, they're dangerous, instilling a false sense of security!

If your picture is anything to go by, then even a proper mask with filter is unlikely to be effective since it relies on a good seal to the face. I have seen people shave immediately before putting on a mask to work in a potentially hazardous situation.

That is why an extraction system is the preferred option; it will pull the fumes and particulates away from the operator (and make them someone elses problem?)

martin

dal-t
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby dal-t » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:41 am

Knuckles are you saying you didn't half-inch your S10 when you demobbed? That counts as 'lask of forethought and planning' in my book - but then I'm still waiting for my brother to pass on his old S9!
David L-T

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Knuckles
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Knuckles » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:50 pm

dal-t wrote:Knuckles are you saying you didn't half-inch your S10 when you demobbed? That counts as 'lask of forethought and planning' in my book - but then I'm still waiting for my brother to pass on his old S9!


I actually did! :D Q stores made me pay for it but I didn't mind. Problem is I am not sure where it is, probably in the attic somewhere.

The beard breaking a seal is 1 reason why military personnel are mandated to shave, the other reason is for social memes.
I'll have a look and if not I'll buy a proper one.

In all honesty though I'm the type of guy who just says sod it and roughs it knowing its a risk. I keep a set of plasters by my modelling desk as I don't always cut away from myself and all that, I clean paint off my hands with thinners before soap and don't really care. Some things I prefer to risk rather than pamper myself.

Breathing though I might sort the mask out as those farty white things don't work that well.

I know this may not bode well with you but you get raw honesty with me. :thumb
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.com/
Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

SCC Price list (7/4/22)
https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf

Philip Hall
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Philip Hall » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:36 pm

I must concur with all the warnings, and Knuckles, do please get a good mask if you are spraying indoors.

Many years ago I was spraying acrylic paint, thinned with water, through a Devillbiss Sprite airbrush. It was not the right kind of airbrush for acrylics, but I didn't know that then, and I only just got the job done before it clogged up. Now because I was spraying water based paint thinned with water, I didn't bother to open the workshop window. It was very difficult to clean the brush and so I resorted to using a can of Spray Away, happily blowing the stuff through the brush for several minutes before suddenly being aware that I wasn't breathing very deeply any more. Of course, I had forgotten to open the window when using the cleaner, and the cleaner contained Xylene. It was stupid of course but the damage was done. I should have been wearing a proper mask, like the one Flymo has shown us.

Despite a good deal of help from my GP and specialists, it took nearly three years before the condition passed to a point where it didn't bother me that much. I say that much because to this day I still have to carry an inhaler. During the recovery period I also began to notice a build up of congestion in the mornings, similar to the after effects of a cold, and my GP prescribed a different inhaler which helped, but the final opinion was that I had sensitised myself as a result of the spraying incident and also with all the solvents and evil stuff I have used at my bench for forty years or more.

Since that day I have not used an airbrush and therefore have tried to develop my skills with brushes and water based paints. I do use spray cans of acrylics, and spray varnish, some of which have some pretty evil smelling carriers, but I always do this outside in the fresh air. If I do use enamels or cellulose thinners I always open a couple of windows.

I am sorry if this has been a bit of a diatribe but much as I admire the occasional bit of Gung-Ho I think it is in this case misplaced. It is just too dangerous. And I also have been forced to alter my modelling methods so that bottles of solvent are not left open when not in use, and am very wary now of some of the smells we all put up with.

Philip

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Knuckles
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Knuckles » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:55 am

Yeah that's fine. I did say I might sort the mask out.

I'd like an extractor or booth but we got literally no room for one. spraying is done in the top shed where the old asbestos(!) roof has gaps in it meaning everytime I go in there I have to wade through spider webs, dragged in mud and vine weed.

Then of course you have kamikazi insects dive bomb your newly sprayed model. Very anoying.

Considering I want go make a short video on air brushing I'll show everyone how not to do it and what a bad spraying enviroment looks like.

Walking disaster!

We haven't the money to replace the roof so we just try not to disturb it.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.com/
Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

SCC Price list (7/4/22)
https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:29 am

I advise great care when producing videos for distribution through social media.

Even if you describe it as "not to" information there are those that will take on board what you say, especially where short cuts and low cost ideas are suggested. What works for you may not be the safest/best way (soldering being probably the best example of this).

I have been modelling for a long time and when I get around to painting locos, stock, etc. I still find myself referring to the writings, etc. of the professionals such as Ian Rathbone or Steve Barnfield.

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LesGros
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby LesGros » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:41 am

Jol,
WOW! Great minds produce synchronisity; :thumb

I was thinking the same thing as you were writing your post.

... Either that or I picked up on your thought waves. :)
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

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Knuckles
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Knuckles » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:59 pm

Yeah, I say to people and mention in my vids verbally or in text "this is just how 'I' sometimes do it and isn't always the most 'official' or safest way of doing things so it's up to you."

Many people on other forums asked me to make the vids so I make them as video making as another hobby type thing of mine. I don't have much choice in this case as my environment is terrible and I cannot sadly change it yet. I'd love a spray booth or extractor fan or a room where everything is hunky dorrey but we don't all live in the same context.

I read books a lot too.


EDIT: On soldering I've been doing fine for years, apart from your suggestion of a fatter tip, less heat and trying Carrs Yellow flux what would you suggest?
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.com/
Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

SCC Price list (7/4/22)
https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf

dclift
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby dclift » Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:48 am

Regarding nasty organic solvents, and wearing my chemist's hat, it is worth noting that, for reasons apparently unknown, some people seem to be much more sensitive to various toxic nasties than others. Also, though one might appear to be unaffected by a particular compound the first, second or third time of use, he or she might suffer a severe adverse reaction on the fourth occasion. You might be ok forever, but my advice is: don't take any chances. It is not worth it because a misadventure can potentially have very unpleasant consequences.
David Clift.

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LesGros
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby LesGros » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:41 am

dclift wrote :
Regarding nasty organic solvents, and wearing my chemist's hat, it is worth noting that, for reasons apparently unknown, some people seem to be much more sensitive to various toxic nasties than others. Also, though one might appear to be unaffected by a particular compound the first, second or third time of use, he or she might suffer a severe adverse reaction on the fourth occasion. You might be ok forever, but my advice is: don't take any chances. It is not worth it because a misadventure can potentially have very unpleasant consequences.

I can testify to the truth of this; One of my fellow Fitters suffered from allergic contact dermatitis; so badly, that he had to wear cotton gloves to be able work on cleaned mechanisms. It was believed that the cause was his being exposed to coolant soluble oils during his earlier work. He was the only one out of several hundred tradesmen affected in this way. Nevertheless, the company (ICI) provided protective clothing and barrier creams; the accompanying safety message being: "prevention is better than cure".

it pays to be cautious when handling solvents, and when using heat processes on plastics. It is worth remembering that: "if you can smell it, you are breathing it"

PS edited to emphasise that he was the only employee affected.
Last edited by LesGros on Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

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Knuckles
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Knuckles » Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:13 pm

That last point you made is the main reason I have decided I'll get a face mask before I use the air brush next.

I use the white disposable ones but as above they seem pretty useless in all honesty. I still come out the shed feeling somewhat high!
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.com/
Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

SCC Price list (7/4/22)
https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf

derekrussan
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby derekrussan » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:27 am

There is no substitute for trying before you buy. That is why Eileen's has airbrushes being demonstrated on their stand at shows.

I find a number of customers come to the stand with a specific product in mind only to find that is not appropriate for what they want. It is not unusual for them you buy a lower cost product than they expected to.
Derek Russan, Eileens Emporium.

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Knuckles
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Knuckles » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:27 am

What recommendation would anyone give for nib size?
I've changed mine before and obviously the spray size is different but in usage I find either works good for loco spraying. Probably a case of preference more than anything.
Last edited by Knuckles on Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.com/
Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

SCC Price list (7/4/22)
https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf

dal-t
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby dal-t » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:38 am

The needle size should be determined by the fluid being sprayed - larger size for larger particles, plus acrylic will dry rapidly on the needle so effectively reducing the available venturi. The smallest needles (0.2mm-0.3mm) are for inks or food colouring (yes, airbrushes aren't just used for painting!). For enamel I have always found 0.5mm works well. For acrylic I go up to 0.7mm, but I don't spray acrylic very often and others seem to get on OK with smaller needles, down to 0.4mm. The needle size should be matched to the spray head, which determines the dispersion pattern - in practice most makers provide fine, medium and heavy options and there may be some overlap. It's a long time since I've used a fine needle and head, most of the time I use medium for main colour and detail, the heavy I reserve for diorama bases, trackwork, or larger scale models (in fact, didn't bother to change for a 1/24 Hurri I'm finishing, and I'm now regretting it).
David L-T

derekrussan
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby derekrussan » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:08 pm

I partly agree, except I see no point in going over 0.5mm needle for anything, if the brush is of good quality.

I would encourage beginners to go for 0.5mm as it is more tollerant to blockages.
Derek Russan, Eileens Emporium.

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Knuckles
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Knuckles » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:23 pm

Cool, thanks for your thoughts, I'll have a look at what nib is in next time and change if needed and see if it is better.

I sprayed with acrylics a few times but for the reasons posted above I avoid it. Was a right pig to clean the brush afterwards.

Enamels are much better.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.com/
Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

SCC Price list (7/4/22)
https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf

derekrussan
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby derekrussan » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:36 pm

Cleaning is easy with Acrylics. Hot water works wonders.

If you airbrush has interchangeable needles chances are quality is not great. Needles should be matched to nozzles.
Derek Russan, Eileens Emporium.

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Knuckles
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Knuckles » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:12 pm

It has 3 nozzles/nibs and 1 needle.

You can see above for a strip down of it.
EDIT: Well, at the bottom of the previous page.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.com/
Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

SCC Price list (7/4/22)
https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:24 am

Sorry to have taken so long to reply to this one, but I have been on holiday with the family on the North York Moors line at PIckering. Not long back and adjusting to the saddle again.

Looking at the assembly as shown in your photograph you have laid out the parts as they can be disassembled. The item I was talking about is the actual spray nozzle which is made up from two parts.in brass. This may not be obvious, but the two parts must not be separated as they are factory set and the setting is important as it is very precise and allows the needle to fit exactly right so that the spray area has no bias of shape, depth of spray etc. The nozzle itself is fairly small and is fitted to its holder, which is threaded to allow attachment to the airbrush, by a thin layer of wax. This may seem an unlikely method of fitting parts together, but it does work. You may find warnings about this in amongst the instructions which came with your airbrush that it was important when cleaning not to disturb the fitment. I have always been careful and have never had an accident this way and my airbrushes continue to function well after 40 years or so. Sorry the image is not so clear as most that I put up. :cry:

Comments about needle sizes and their uses I pretty much agree with would just emphasise the importance of matching the needle with the spray nozzle.

DSC058931.jpg
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Knuckles
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Knuckles » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:36 pm

Hello. :) No worries about late reply.

Your picture looks like the standard ends that are interchangable on my airbrush so I must admit I am a little bewildered here. :/

My airbrush is still going strong and I have used different ends.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.com/
Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

SCC Price list (7/4/22)
https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:03 am

Hi Knuckles,

The part I am referring to is the small part laid out to the right of your photograph. It may be that in your case it is just a single machined part - difficult to tell from the photograph. :?: If that is the case I understand your bewilderment and please forgive me pointing out something which may not apply. The Badger airbrushes which I myself use definitely have a nozzle made in two parts, which, even with close examination, is not immediately apparent.

file.jpg


It is difficult to tell from your photograph if yours may also be so. It too is possibly made from two pieces as in the majority of air brushes, although a couple of makes De Vilblis for example have a single machined piece. It is not clear from your photo, nor from mine I am afraid, that this is the case, although my airbrush nozzle is made in two parts. Even a better close up of either would probably fail to show the near invisible joint.

:idea: The important point of course is to take care over the cleaning of these parts in case of disturbing them, no over zealous scrubbing and avoid using boiling water in case it melts the wax. If this does not apply to your airbrush Knuckles that's fine and again I apologise for bringing it up, but others may have air brushes where the nozzles are made from two parts and it is just to make them aware that this may be the case and just to be cautious. :thumb
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Knuckles
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Re: Air Brush Recommendation

Postby Knuckles » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:01 pm

No need to apologise. :)

I see what you are saying now.

I haven't got the brush out since but I'm 95% sure the ends are in one piece.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.com/
Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

SCC Price list (7/4/22)
https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf


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