Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

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Terry Bendall
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Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:12 am

The Society has for some time been considering having some form tools made to enable RTR OO wheels to be re-profiled to P4 standards. The question has been raised as to how many people would want such a thing? The use would mainly be for steam loco wheels. The point has been made that anyone who wants to do this firstly needs the skills and the equipment to do it, and if they do want to do this sort of job should they not have the skills to make the tool anyway? I do not necessarily support the last point.

The tool would be a simple form tool so would not stand sharpening since that would change the profile but it should last a long time doing the job for which it is designed. The price has not been determined since it would depend on how many we order in a batch but might be around £30.

Expressions of interest without any commitment or promises to deliver are invited.

Terry Bendall

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45609
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby 45609 » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:37 am

Hi Terry,

Simple answer - Yes please

Longer answer - Still yes but have you thought about (I'm sure you have) things like shank size of the tool, material (HSS or Carbide) and whether left or right hand or, put another way, flange to the left (headstock facing) or right (tailstock facing)? I guess this would depend on the approach preferred by the machinist. The work I did on some Bachmann 9F wheels a few years ago had the flange to the left (i.e. headstock end) but that job involved removing the flange completely and replacing with new steel tyres.

I also agree with your view that it should not be taken for granted that those with the skills would make their own form tool. Speaking personally, I probably could, but then that is time not spent on building the loco. Time saved is valuable when we start getting on a bit...

Cheers...Morgan
Last edited by 45609 on Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby Paul Townsend » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:57 am

I would buy one.

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John Bateson
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby John Bateson » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:08 am

Terry,
I have a pile of AG wheels that are EM. If I can reprofile these to P4 it would save me more than the proposed cost of the tool.

I also wonder if the 3D wheel printing enthusiasts could use this for sizes not available fro our few sources of wheels.

John
Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...
Avoiding the soaps ...
https://www.greatcentralmodels.co.uk

40C
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby 40C » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:23 am

I would buy one.

Gordon Luck

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John H. Wright
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby John H. Wright » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:44 am

Terry,
With a boxful of EM wheels gathering cobwebs at Geordie Works a profile tool could be very useful. So .... yes please.

Regards,
JHW
Regards,
John H. Wright
http://www.xclent.freeuk.com
Modelling the Pennsylvania Railroad ( 1940s ) in HO and P87 and BR (ex.NER c.1948-50) in P4

waveydavey
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby waveydavey » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:47 am

I’d buy one Terry,

Having inherited a Peatol lathe I’ve worked out how to narrow the wheel and reduce the height of the flange but rounding the resulting square flange to a consistent level gives me the fear and doing it with a file held against the spinning wheel seem a little bit dangerous.

Cheers

David
Modelling Clackmannanshire Railways in 1975
http://waveydaveysmodelmuddle.wordpress.com/

ralphrobertson
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby ralphrobertson » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:54 am

Hi Terry,

Please put me down for one. Hope to learn eventually how to use something like that so should buy one whilst they are available.

As a matter of interest there is a German company who sell them for other profiles and the cost you mention sounds appropriate.

https://www.fohrmann.com/en/railway-modeling-tools/

I have purchased silver soldering items from these guys before and they have good quality stuff.

Ralph

DavidM
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby DavidM » Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:37 pm

Yes please, I’d buy one.

David Murrell

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Alastairr
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby Alastairr » Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:53 pm

+1 from me Terry.

Online tuition from an expert in how to use it too :D

Thanks,
Alastair

bevis
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby bevis » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:39 pm

Yes please Terry

myoxall
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby myoxall » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:53 pm

Yes please Terry, I've booked a course for Lathe and Milling this November at the local Uni'. I wonder if Santa will bring a Lathe and Milling Machine? ;)

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby Rod Cameron » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:27 pm

As long as Lapland doesn't become a Covid hotspot with Santa grounded indefinitely :?
Rod

Porcy Mane
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby Porcy Mane » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:34 pm

My hand is up at the back.

I know of at least one other member that is in desperate need of a wheel profile tool.

P

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Re6/6
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby Re6/6 » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:40 pm

Me too please Terry!

P.S...with a 6mm shank.
Last edited by Re6/6 on Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
John

nigelcliffe
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby nigelcliffe » Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:45 pm

Interested, but I think any form tool should have a bit of guidance on lathe rigidity needed. I suspect the lightest lathes might struggle with a form tool.

I usually do wheel rim turning by estimates of cone angles, with a bit of a radiused tip to a tool for the corner between flange and tyre tread. Its always worked for me. But a single operation form tool would be quicker.


- Nigel

shipbadger
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby shipbadger » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:07 pm

And one for me please Terry.

Tony Comber

Philip Hall
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby Philip Hall » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:30 pm

Yes please Terry.

Philip

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Steve Taylor
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby Steve Taylor » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:00 pm

Thats a yes please from me too.

Stephan.wintner
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby Stephan.wintner » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:45 pm

I'm interested.

Side note, I saw an article somewhere. The author made a form tool by turning a disk, then cutting a notch in (with suitable rake). My point is, that tool was able to be resharpened many times. Not sure of the design being contemplated, and I'll buy it either way, just offering a comment from the peanut gallery.

Cheers
Stephan

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:47 pm

Yes please for me Terry

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:03 pm

Stephan.wintner wrote:I'm interested.

Side note, I saw an article somewhere. The author made a form tool by turning a disk, then cutting a notch in (with suitable rake). My point is, that tool was able to be resharpened many times. Not sure of the design being contemplated, and I'll buy it either way, just offering a comment from the peanut gallery.

Cheers
Stephan

That article was from Sid Stubbe/MMRS, 1960s IIRC. Could be a reference on the MMRS website.
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

dmsmith
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby dmsmith » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:49 pm

And me too!

Best wishes,
David

Philip Hall
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby Philip Hall » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:07 pm

I ought to add (having just read Morgan’s post again) that my machine is an old Unimat SL, so will ideally only take 6mm square stock in the tool holder. Now I know of course that this machine is probably not going to be man enough to use a form tool in the normal way, but I would probably only use it for the final finishing and checking.

I already have had some success with reprofiling wheels by eye, and anyway it seems to be to be worth a try at the very reasonable estimated price.

Philip

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Horsetan
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Re: Who would want a form tool for re-profiling wheels?

Postby Horsetan » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:08 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:The Society has for some time been considering having some form tools made to enable RTR OO wheels to be re-profiled to P4 standards. The question has been raised as to how many people would want such a thing? The use would mainly be for steam loco wheels. The point has been made that anyone who wants to do this firstly needs the skills and the equipment to do it, and if they do want to do this sort of job should they not have the skills to make the tool anyway? I do not necessarily support the last point.

The tool would be a simple form tool so would not stand sharpening since that would change the profile but it should last a long time doing the job for which it is designed. The price has not been determined since it would depend on how many we order in a batch but might be around £30.

Expressions of interest without any commitment or promises to deliver are invited.


Yes please from me.

ralphrobertson wrote:....As a matter of interest there is a German company who sell them for other profiles and the cost you mention sounds appropriate.

https://www.fohrmann.com/en/railway-modeling-tools/...


A matter of regret that Fohrmann never saw fit to make them for P87 as well, so I went to Teichmann for that, plus had some more specially made.

The Fohrmann wheel holding tool is also useful, but took six weeks-plus to reach Britain.
Last edited by Horsetan on Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That would be an ecumenical matter.


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