New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

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John Donnelly
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New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby John Donnelly » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:43 am

Announced this morning:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... try3375987

Even better news is that they are giving serious consideration to P4 out of the box much like the SLW 24.

John

Crepello
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Crepello » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:20 pm

Looks to outclass the Bachmann offering by a considerable margin.
Just when I'd acquired a 3-D printer to try to make some more convincing cabs!

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:10 am

According to their website, etc. this is a 00 Scale model, so will it be suitable for EM or 18.83 gauge?

I do find the inability of suppliers/traders/media to understand the difference between scale and gauge rather disappointing

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Mark Tatlow » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:04 am

Jol,

Accurascale definitely know the difference between the three gauges in the scale. For example, they consulted with us over their first 4mm wagon.

If you look at their press announcement, it says:

We are also actively investigating offering EM and P4 wheelsets as an additional option for customers who model those respective gauges. We will provide updates on that as the project progresses for our finescale friends.

Which seems pretty categoric! I think they are savvy enough to know that they would need tr spring the centre axle on a three axle bogie and hopefully there is sufficient dialogue going on with the committee to have communicated this if they do not!



Mark
Mark Tatlow

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John Donnelly
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby John Donnelly » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:53 am

Jol Wilkinson wrote:According to their website, etc. this is a 00 Scale model, so will it be suitable for EM or 18.83 gauge?

I do find the inability of suppliers/traders/media to understand the difference between scale and gauge rather disappointing


I asked them this directly:

"I REALLY hope your are able to offer P4 wheels as an option like SLW do with the 24s..."

and their reply:

"That's exactly the plan John, just like all of our wagons, the Deltic has been designed to work with P4/EM 'out of the box' and we're looking at supplying wheelsets."

John

Terry Bendall
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:02 am

I am aware that Accurascale are in the process of seeking advice on their model from one of the acknowledged experts on the prototype so I think we can be confident that it will be a top quality product.

Terry Bendall

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:02 pm

Gentlemen,

my comment was slightly tongue in cheek, as having read Accurascale's PR on RMweb, I took a look at their website. While the PR refers to 4mm scale, the website says:

"Highly detailed OO scale model, 1:76.2" - although it also goes on to refer to EM and P4 wheelsets (without saying EM scale or P4 scale).

Perhaps I am alone in disliking the term "OO scale", as used by Bachmann, Gaugemaster and others (although Hornby refer to OO gauge).

Jol

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grovenor-2685
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:57 pm

I agree Jol, but its not a winnable battle so not worth fighting :)
Much worse is 00/H0 scale.
Rgds

David Catton
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby David Catton » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:34 pm

No doubt it will stop at model train stations on owners' layouts and even more purists will immediately be incandescent and fill the forums with their annoyance.

My point is, "Did you know what they meant?" I'm all for accuracy of the type espoused by Jol but is it really worth while letting it get to you . . . ? You could turn into a TW on RMWeb and be adored by many but a source of amusement for others.

Cheers,

DC

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Horsetan
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Horsetan » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:21 pm

They're not doing DP1 or DP2, though.

Crepello wrote:Looks to outclass the Bachmann offering by a considerable margin.
Just when I'd acquired a 3-D printer to try to make some more convincing cabs!


Stand by for a trickle of Bachmann Deltics onto eBay.

Terry Bendall wrote:I am aware that Accurascale are in the process of seeking advice on their model from one of the acknowledged experts on the prototype ...


Is that a euphemism for Brian Hanson :?:
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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Hardwicke
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Hardwicke » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:33 pm

The model looks like it will be a winner. Weren't the NRM/Bachmann DELTIC and Heljan DP2 pretty accurate? The Bachmann deltic failed on so many levels.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

meld
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby meld » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:07 pm

The Heljan DP2 suffers from the taper being different between the bonnet sides and the cabs so looks very odd from the front ('light bulb' like!). The Bachmann deltic has issues with the bonnet top and nose as well as printed on detail. However, all this is fixable. There are several issues with the Accurascale CAD that would be harder to fix and I'm waiting to see if they release an improved CAD.

If not then the the best bet may be an Accurascale chassis - the bogies look excellent - with a Shawplanned Bachmann body.

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Horsetan
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Horsetan » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:13 pm

Hardwicke wrote:The model looks like it will be a winner. Weren't the NRM/Bachmann DELTIC and Heljan DP2 pretty accurate? The Bachmann deltic failed on so many levels.


The Bachmann DP1 has a slightly too rounded nose top, but is otherwise alright. Unfortunately the drivetrain has worms in it. :mrgreen:
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Philip Hall
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Philip Hall » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:15 am

If there is something markedly wrong with the Accurascale model can you specify? Perhaps advise the manufacturer before they start production?

Philip

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Patrick
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Patrick » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:46 am

meld wrote:The Heljan DP2 suffers from the taper being different between the bonnet sides and the cabs so looks very odd from the front ('light bulb' like!). The Bachmann deltic has issues with the bonnet top and nose as well as printed on detail. However, all this is fixable. There are several issues with the Accurascale CAD that would be harder to fix and I'm waiting to see if they release an improved CAD.

If not then the the best bet may be an Accurascale chassis - the bogies look excellent - with a Shawplanned Bachmann body.


We'd be curious to hear exactly what issues you seem to have found with the CAD (which has been revised further since the unveiling at Warley)...

Kind regards,

Patrick
Accurascale

Terry Bendall
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:30 am

Patrick wrote:We'd be curious to hear exactly what issues you seem to have found with the CAD


Very good to see a representative of the manufacturer commenting on here. All the experts can now feed in their comments. :)
Looking at drawings is one thing. Comparing the actual model to pictures or even the real thing is even better.

Terry Bendall

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Patrick
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Patrick » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:46 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:
Patrick wrote:We'd be curious to hear exactly what issues you seem to have found with the CAD


Very good to see a representative of the manufacturer commenting on here. All the experts can now feed in their comments. :)
Looking at drawings is one thing. Comparing the actual model to pictures or even the real thing is even better.

Terry Bendall


Cheers, Terry - good to hear from you!

We’ve researched the prototype extensively, including surveys of two surviving locos, and have worked closely with the DPS and Brian Hanson throughout the development stage. Camera matching of the CAD with photos of the real thing show that the body profile matches up. If Meld has spotted something we’ve missed, we’d love to hear about it as it would be frustrating to go to all these lengths only to get something wrong...

meld
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby meld » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:43 pm

Patrick wrote:
meld wrote:The Heljan DP2 suffers from the taper being different between the bonnet sides and the cabs so looks very odd from the front ('light bulb' like!). The Bachmann deltic has issues with the bonnet top and nose as well as printed on detail. However, all this is fixable. There are several issues with the Accurascale CAD that would be harder to fix and I'm waiting to see if they release an improved CAD.

If not then the the best bet may be an Accurascale chassis - the bogies look excellent - with a Shawplanned Bachmann body.


We'd be curious to hear exactly what issues you seem to have found with the CAD (which has been revised further since the unveiling at Warley)...

Kind regards,

Patrick
Accurascale


The cab windscreens are to large, the nose grille is too low and looks a bit heavy handed and the bonnet/nose side curves seem to be out as the curve at the nose ends seems to start below the top of the nose grille when it should be above it.

Andrew

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Hardwicke
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Hardwicke » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:04 am

Will it be offered as P4?
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".


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Patrick
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Patrick » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:35 pm

meld wrote:The cab windscreens are to large, the nose grille is too low and looks a bit heavy handed and the bonnet/nose side curves seem to be out as the curve at the nose ends seems to start below the top of the nose grille when it should be above it.

Andrew


Hi Andrew,

Our designer did a quick overlay of some CAD onto a prototype photo:

Image

As you can see the cab windows are the correct size and the nose grille is at the right height. The curves also match-up.

Regarding the "heavy handed" look of the grille, this is just how it's rendered by the CAD software. In reality, it will be produced from etched metal to get the required finesse.

Hope that answers your query!

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iak
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby iak » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:59 am

Nuff said... Onwards I say.
Even my wife is impressed, now that "is" worth using maybe :D ???
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/

meld
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby meld » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:16 pm

Doesn't your photo prove my point? taking into account the different persepctives, the top of the nose grille on the cad is definitely lower than the top of the actual nose grille. the shoulder grilles also seem to be too low in comparison.

Terry Bendall
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Terry Bendall » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:50 am

meld wrote:taking into account the different persepctives


That I would suggest is the problem. To make an accurate comparison a side or end on picture taken at 90 degrees to the body is needed and then the drawing overlaid. In fact a aerial shot at right angles to the nose is also needed. With all the complex curves in three planes trying to compare things this way is never going to be 100 % accurate. I think Accurascale are going to a lot of trouble to get the model "right" and I know that there has been a lot of discussion with those who know and things have been changed from the original drawings. Whether the final model turns out to be 100% correct is another matter but I reckon it will certainly be a lot better than what is on the market at the moment.

Terry Bendall

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Le Corbusier
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Re: New 4mm Scale Deltic from Accurascale

Postby Le Corbusier » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:18 am

probably a naive question ... but aren't there any facsimiles of the original shop drawings available?
Tim Lee


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