Rixon Finescale Models

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John Bateson
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Re: Rixon Finescale Models

Postby John Bateson » Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:27 am

We should perhaps note that Shapeways have a PIA (Print It Anyway) option.
I have used this a lot for older and a few newer designs. It seems that the US checkers are a lot less flexible than when Shapeways started.

Note that the onus is now on the customer if this option is selected, so apart from a shock/horror episode about three years ago I have had no further issues using this option. Some of the checks do now seem to be a bit picky though.
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Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Rixon Finescale Models

Postby Guy Rixon » Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:09 pm

The proximate problem with Shapeways is that the "print it anyway" option is only available when a designer orders their own models. It can't be used by customers buying from a Shapeways shop, nor can the shop owner tell SW to print it anyway (I've already asked about that). If Joe Public orders something they don't trust I get an email telling me to fix it, and if I can't or won't then the product is taken off the order. Which is majorly annoying for the customer when shipping and tax is nearly £20 per order.

Therefore, if anybody has been collaborating with me to get a model printed, I can still (probably) get that for them by ordering it myself. AFAIK, none of my products, in 4mm scale, ever actually broke in production.

PS: if anybody is still engaging with SW, the print-approval problem is with "wires", which have to be > 1.0 mm to pass inspection. Conversely "walls" can go down to 0.3 mm and still meet the material guidelines. The distinction between wires and walls is subtle, but if a section has its two smallest dimensions between 0.3 and 1.0 mm it will typically be thrown out as a thin wire. This means that the ends of leaf springs are all banned as thin wires if they come anywhere near scale, and also anything simulating platework in brake rigging. The spigots on my buffer guides are also dissed as thin wires because they have a hole through the centre, so that's the whole range gone.

C.f. iMaterialise, where the walls have to be > 1.0 mm as well.

There may be a few dodges at SW. One might, perhaps, broaden a scale 3"-wide spring to 4" wide so that its end counts as a wall not a wire. The spigots on the buffers can be resprued to look like walls. But all these things take time which I don't have right now and need test prints which I can't really afford en masse. I may bring a few things back if I need the test-prints for my own models.

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iak
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Re: Rixon Finescale Models

Postby iak » Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:52 pm

Shapeways are a wee stroppy at present it seems
I have ordered and used a lot of your stuff Guy, this development is sad but I totally agree with your actions.
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billbedford

Re: Rixon Finescale Models

Postby billbedford » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:11 am

Shapeways is changing its business model to a more commercial/industrial model.

ted.stephens
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Re: Rixon Finescale Models

Postby ted.stephens » Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:04 am

For Shapeways Fine Detail Plastic.

The limitations set by Shapeways are not determined by the capability of the 3D printer but by the fragility of the model when it is cleaned. Thin model wires break easily when handled. Hence these are not allowed for mass production items.

The printing technology they use is 3D Systems Multi Jet printing, probably an MJP series printer or a predecessor, and uses Visijet M3 Plastic, as shown on Shapeways/3DS materials data sheet https://www.shapeways.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/12/Material-Data-Sheet-FUD.pdf .

This system uses wax as a support material and plastic as the finished model material, so when printed it comes out of the printer as a lump of wax with a plastic model embedded in it. To get the model out of the wax they use an oven to melt it leaving behind the model. The problem is that there is wax residue on the surface of the model and in holes or inclusions. The wax has to be removed by further cleaning work, often manual, and it is during this process that thin detail gets broken.

I had similar issues to Guy with Shapeways and at the time suggested they offer a print only service, i.e. I would undertake the wax removal and cleaning. The "print it anyway" service goes someway towards solving this problem but is not available for commercial production.

What we need to find is an organisation that is willing to offer a "Print Only" service and the end user is responsible for wax removal and cleaning. Should the model disintegrate during cleaning then that is the user's liability. Ideally the service will be UK based to avoid cross border tax/customs/etc. A service such as this should be much cheaper as it does not require the labour input for model cleaning and would allow multiple parts to be printed without having to make them into a sprue.

I would be happy to discuss in greater detail if anyone is interested. Perhaps for a different thread.

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kelly
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Re: Rixon Finescale Models

Postby kelly » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:09 am

A collective group of members with printers might be one option. Potentially far cheaper than the postage plus taxes from sw.
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CornCrake
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Re: Rixon Finescale Models

Postby CornCrake » Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:47 pm


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Guy Rixon
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Re: Rixon Finescale Models

Postby Guy Rixon » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:52 am



I have now. Seems very interesting, but there's a lot of detail to be worked out.


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