SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

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billbedford
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Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby billbedford » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:39 pm

Guy Rixon wrote:I note that Etched Pixels sell 1:148 kits with etched sides and a printed armature.


I think these are the original Ultima armatures. They are a clear injection moulded box, which is a lot easier to produce in 2mm scale than 4.

A printed armature would not be very much cheaper than a fully printed coach body.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:06 am

Guy Rixon wrote:What are the options for 3rd-party door furniture these days? I seem to remember etched T-handles and loop-handles being available back in the '90s. Personally, I would have no problem gluing in etched door-handles, but filing up a train's worth of handles from pin heads would be a bit daunting.


Guy,

I use a fine circular sanding disc in a Minicraft drill to file the head of the pin, holding the pin in a pin chuck. Quick, easy and controllable.

Jol

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:04 am

billbedford wrote:
Jol Wilkinson wrote:I prefer separate door and commode handles. So a kit with holes for these (or markers showing where to drill) would be my choice. Commode handles can be made from wire, not too difficult if a folding jig is part of the kit. Door handles are easily made from brass lace pins with a file.


Now here's an interesting thought, making and fitting the door handles is going to take longer than assembling the rest of the coach...

If 3D printing is the answer to a maiden's prayer that some believe it is, then why not print the handles for subsequent fitting?


You can't do that. It's to do with the resolution of printers and the fragility of thin sections of resins. The recommended minimum sheet thickness for my printer is 0.4mm, which is about double what is needed for stand-alone door handles.

This is reminiscent of the early days of etched kits where some designers tried to etch nearly everything. If you are designing kits it is important to recognise that multi-material or composite kits attract the more experienced modeller, while "simple" kits aimed at beginners may not do so if there is too much work needed to uplift them and alternatives are available.


Maybe, but trial and error is what makes a designer. It is more important to know what you definitely can't do than what you obviously can.

Oh, and the market is not for 'simple kits for beginners' it is really for sophisticated kits for people who have realised that life to too short to get their magnum opus layout finished with the standard 1000 piece three-dimensional jigsaw puzzles that pass for 'state of the art' kits.


Bill,

making things is what some of us enjoy. Otherwise why not just do what so many do, and simply get our models from the wide range of RTR products available.

If prototypical accurate door and commode handles can't be printed as separate items, then can they be printed attached to the side but with the relevant air gap behind the handle so that they look more realistic than the moulded on handles on plastic moulded coaches? Or is that asking too much?

Not everyone is building a Magnum Opus, so defining what a kit should be based on your idea of what they want, is not what everyone wants.

Yes, I know about designing kits (albeit etched ones), the learning curve that it involves and the need to build what you design to ensure it works. I've also bought products that haven't been tested by the designer, which can be quite a challenge and sometimes very frustrating.

Sometimes products, where new technology has been adopted early, doesn't produce acceptable results. I've seen some frankly appalling 3D printed models, but regarded by the designer as a great example of what 3D printing can provide. Examples include 3D printed wagons and vans from a certain print "bureau" where the surface finish is so poor and the material characteristics such that they cannot be finished to produce an acceptable surface, even for a weathered wooden wagon.

Another example of sometimes unsuitable use of a developing technology, a laser cut plywood model horse drawn van. Easy to assemble, inexpensive, but impossible to paint to get a satisfactory paint finish. Either the grain shows through, or by sealing it for a smooth surface, the laser cut surface detail disappears. That's why, when designing the artwork for the laser cut components for the LNWR covered footbridge on London Road, I opted for Rowmark, rather than ply, as the best material.

So, while recognising the benefits of new technology and happy to adopt it whenever appropriate (I think Alan Butler's Modelu items are great), I think we should always recognise that it isn't always an improvement over what we already have. The market place is varied, with people wanting different models and kits in different formats to suit their preferences and level of skills. There isn't, and probably never will be, a one size fits all answer.

Jol

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Guy Rixon
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Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby Guy Rixon » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:56 pm

Jol Wilkinson wrote:If prototypical accurate door and commode handles can't be printed as separate items, then can they be printed attached to the side but with the relevant air gap behind the handle so that they look more realistic than the moulded on handles on plastic moulded coaches? Or is that asking too much?

IIUC, a commode handle would count as a "supported wire" (because it touches the coach side at both ends) and a door handle as an "unsupported wire". For Shapeways FUD, the minimum thickness is supposed to be 0.6mm on a supported wire and 0.8mm on unsupported. So printing the gap behind the commode handle is possible, but the handle itself would have to be somewhat over-scale.

Knuckles
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Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby Knuckles » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:17 pm

True for Shapeways but when you have your own printers things can be finer in some areas.

I agree with Jol's points about different methods, techniques, preferances etc. Is what I keep saying. Although I obviously advocate 3D printing it won't replace etching for some things due to etching being more suitable for certain things or just preferences.

Horses for corses, trucks for sidings etc.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

billbedford
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Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby billbedford » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:29 pm

Jol Wilkinson wrote:making things is what some of us enjoy. Otherwise why not just do what so many do, and simply get our models from the wide range of RTR products available.


I don't envision the end of etched kits or scratch building or even modeller produced etchings for scratch building.

If prototypical accurate door and commode handles can't be printed as separate items, then can they be printed attached to the side but with the relevant air gap behind the handle so that they look more realistic than the moulded on handles on plastic moulded coaches? Or is that asking too much?


Door handles may be possible, I'm not sure about commode handles that will stand being handled. We seem to be always waiting for the resin chemistry to catch up to what we would like. At the moment there is a trade off between fine detail and resilience.

Not everyone is building a Magnum Opus, so defining what a kit should be based on your idea of what they want, is not what everyone wants.


Etched kits aren't going to disappear very soon. However experience has told be that while coach etches can be counted as years per sale, cast or printed resin coaches can be sold in reasonable volumes.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:26 am

Bill,

the "slow" sales of etched coach kits was ever thus. In my experience there is usually an initial sales "rush", followed by a steady, slow trickle. I doubt that there are many layouts where the ration of carriages to locos, whether kit built or RTR, gets anywhere near the real thing.

Easy build kits for carriages to compliment the recent, much acclaimed, RTR pre-group locos such as the Stirling Single would seem to provide a good market opportunity, but I wonder if many potential buyers would be willing to take on the task of painting and lining the pre-group carriage liveries?

Jol

Knuckles
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Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby Knuckles » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:41 pm

Just wimp out and go all out Teak. :D
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

billbedford
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Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby billbedford » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:58 pm

We should try access the tartan paint technology that figured so often in the Beano and Dandy.
Bill Bedford
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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:32 pm

billbedford wrote:We should try access the tartan paint technology that figured so often in the Beano and Dandy.


I once read a post in that other place by someone who eagerly looked forward to the day he could put a B&W photo of a loco onto the scanner before retiring for the evening to find the following morning, a fully working model, painted and ready to run, in the 3D printer.

It's life Jim, but not as we know it (yet).

Knuckles
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Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby Knuckles » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:24 pm

Jokes aside we are getting close to that.

There are technologies that create 3D meshes out of 2D images, your PC likely has one if you have Windows 10 called 3D Builder although I haven't yet given it much investigation.

There is 3D colour printing.

Hinged parts all printed in one go, fully 'hingable' after a clean.

And with direct metal 3D printing (Markforged etc) increasing in popularity and refinement there are more possibilities around the bend.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

Knuckles
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Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:15 pm

Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby Knuckles » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:11 pm

Quick follow up to that 3D printed coach side I did for Linny.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LinnysTrains ... 0102609922

Bottom needs smoothing as the layer lines show a bit, or a higher resolution print. Other than that, apart from door handle wars, I think it's pretty nice.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

Knuckles
Posts: 1181
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:15 pm

Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby Knuckles » Sat May 04, 2019 12:12 pm

Not a new product but I was asked for help in deciding what detail variations the various Furness & Cambrian engines had in relation to the different parts I have made, so to that end I created this PDF earlier. You'll have to look at the Shapeways website or the Photon Price list for pictures and names but it's explained clearly inside.

You may find it useful just for general research too or if making your own models unrelated to SCC.

SCC FR & Cambrian Detail Variation Guide.pdf
(190.89 KiB) Downloaded 64 times
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

Knuckles
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Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:15 pm

Re: SCC - Sparkshot Custom Creations

Postby Knuckles » Mon May 20, 2019 5:47 pm

I've kept this quiet and just got on with it, well they're ready now.


It's no secret I like to model the Railway Series/RWS as well as pre-Grouping locomotives so to that end here is something more freelance to my own interpretation.

May be suitable for non RWS engines too simply by painting them differently.


https://twitter.com/KnucklesSCC/status/ ... 2388123648

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksh ... Goblin&s=0


£34.89 plus postage from me directly for any body shell in 4mm, sparkshot082@gmail.com.


As to modelling I have a desk that looks a bombsite as I'm in the middle of building chassis for the Goblins so I'll have some more to show later of the physical variety.



Metal one...
https://www.shapeways.com/product/NWZX5 ... -goblin-v2
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320


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