Large Urban Goods Sheds

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Suffolk Dave
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Large Urban Goods Sheds

Postby Suffolk Dave » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:15 am

I am interested to learn how large urban goods sheds operated in the steam era. I have in mind such places as Bishopsgate on the GER/LNER but it would be good to discover how other such places functioned too. For instance, I imagine they processed both incoming and outcoming goods but how was this achieved? As they had multiple lines entering them, were some dedicated to incoming traffic with others dedicated to outgoing? Or maybe it was arbitrary with lines dealing with both types.

Along with this, it would be interesting to learn how wagons were processed. Clearly, incoming goods would be marshalled to arrive at the goods shed but how were empties treated? Maps of large urban goods sheds show plenty of siding space but again, were any of these dedicated say for empty traffic? I appreciate some wagons would be returned to a specific location but how about pooled wagons? As busy goods sheds needed empties for their outward goods it would seem rational and efficient if an incoming wagon, once emptied was moved only a short distance so it could be brought back, if needed, to be loaded with outgoing freight.

All the sources I have come across tend not to dwell on the finer detail of how such goods yards operated but if anyone could shed any light on this, or point me in the direction of a more detailed source, I’d be very grateful.

Dave Carr (NEEAG)
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Tony Wilkins
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Re: Large Urban Goods Sheds

Postby Tony Wilkins » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:25 am

Hello Dave.
Bob Essery's book on Freight Train operation for the railway modeller has a chapter on freight terminals and offers some guidance.
He states that large goods stations would have clearly defined areas for loading and unloading traffic. It would make sense to keep the flows separate.
Another useful fact is that inward traffic began to arrive late at night and throughout the early hours. By early afternoon, most of the goods that had arrived overnight had been delivered and the men were busy collecting goods for dispatch by overnight train. Where possible wagons emptied from inward trains would be reused for outgoing traffic. Any differences in demand being catered for by wagon balancing workings to or from nearby marshalling yards.
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Tony.
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petermeyer
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Re: Large Urban Goods Sheds

Postby petermeyer » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:31 am

You might get some clues from the Working Time Table as to which kind of goods trains stopped and/or started from such locations. In large conurbations such as London, there were often separate coal depots for such traffic; the LNWR had a few in South London.

Pre-grouping and pre-pooling "foreign" wagons had to be returned so could not be reused. They would be kept in a siding until a pickup goods came to collect them. Again the WTT might specify which trains had to stop to pick up foreign wagons.

Terry Bendall
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Re: Large Urban Goods Sheds

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:17 pm

Other sources of information are:

The Railway Goos Shed and Warehouse in England by John Minnis and Simon Hickman, piublished by Historic England ISBN 878-1-84802-328 This gives a good introductions to sheds large and small

4LMS Days - Birmingham New Street - a great station by Richard Foster published by Wild Swan ISBN 1 874103 37 2 Despite the title this book includes a lot on Curzon Street when operating as a goods station. It is only the last 1/3 of the book that covers Curzon Street but it gives a lot of detail.

Birmingham Moor Street Station - a century of entreprise by Ian Baxter and Richard Harper KRM Publishing ISBN 978 0 95347759 3 Covers the building of the station including the underground goods shed but more focussed on the passenger station.

Terry Bendall

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Winander
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Re: Large Urban Goods Sheds

Postby Winander » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:51 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:The Railway Goods Shed and Warehouse in England by John Minnis and Simon Hickman, published by Historic England ISBN 878-1-84802-328 This gives a good introductions to sheds large and small


You can download this here for free, it is a good read https://historicengland.org.uk/images-b ... warehouse/
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Suffolk Dave
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Re: Large Urban Goods Sheds

Postby Suffolk Dave » Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:22 pm

Thanks to everyone who replied to my request.

The Historic England publication is a fascinating read and answered some of my questions about urban good shed operations. I imagine the Rob Essery book is rare, or perhaps modellers are not parting with it for love nor money, as the secondhand book scene is devoid of it! However, it's now on my radar so, I'll be keeping my eyes peeled...
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jim s-w
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Re: Large Urban Goods Sheds

Postby jim s-w » Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:32 pm

Jim Smith-Wright

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Suffolk Dave
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Re: Large Urban Goods Sheds

Postby Suffolk Dave » Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:55 am

Thanks Jim, you're a star!

The only one I did find was 50 quid on Amazon
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