Private Owner Brake Vans

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jon price
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Private Owner Brake Vans

Postby jon price » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:51 pm

From late in the 19th century until at least 1904 the Buckley Collieries operated trains using their own engines across Wrexham, Mold and Connah's Quay rails to reach the docks at Connah's Quay. The route had extremely steep gradients and undoubtedly required the use of brake vans. (The colliery system ran around five locos). No images exist, so I am wondering what kind of livery such vehicles might typically have. Are there examples of similar vehicles from elsewhere to which I could refer? Is it possible that they carried a variant of the livery used on the company's wagons, or are they more likely to simply be painted without identifiers?
Connah's Quay Workshop threads: viewforum.php?f=125

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Noel
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Re: Private Owner Brake Vans

Postby Noel » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:14 am

I doubt that there is a typical answer to this. Each owner would do what it felt appropriate, so what one did is not necessarily any guide to what others did. One I am aware of is the Nixons Navigation Co which bought GWR style vans [so similar that the possibility must exist that they were built to GW drawings apart from minor details] from Hurst, Nelson in 1913 to work Cwmdu to Maesteg. As delivered, at least, the livery of these does not seem to match their wagons, but does include the company name.

I suspect that to answer your question may require primary research in the Buckley Railway, WM&CQ and Buckley Collieries records, if they still exist. You could try the HMRS; the information about the NN van I mentioned above was from a photo now held by the HMRS. Another possibility is local newspaper archives; they did like to photograph accidents. I presume you have checked for anything interesting lurking in the background of a photo of something else...

Noel
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Noel

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jon price
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Re: Private Owner Brake Vans

Postby jon price » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:29 pm

Thanks Noel. For the date range there are no newspaper photos, and my limited trawl through the local archive didnt turn up anything, although I did find photos of a WMCQR loco that I didn't think existed(the photo, not the loco) (which means a radical rebuild of the cab of a nearly finished loco!). Even the local wagons are almost impossible to find, with some deduction required from partial or vague photos. I'm tempted to go with the large letters from the wagon in two lines, but I have a feeling that the smaller size letters might feel more suitable
P1060991.JPG
Connah's Quay Workshop threads: viewforum.php?f=125

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Noel
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Re: Private Owner Brake Vans

Postby Noel » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:08 pm

The NN van I referred to has the company name [in rather small lettering, placed diagonally in one panel only] plus a number, nothing else. It makes sense, if you assume that the wagon livery is a sort of mobile advertisement, with the coal wagons potentially travelling over a large area, at least in theory. The van(s), however, would have been extremely limited in their area of use, so the publicity value would be negligible. So much would have depended on the owner's view of what they wanted, which is why I suggest that there is probably not a typical answer.

Noel
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Noel

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John Bateson
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Re: Private Owner Brake Vans

Postby John Bateson » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:28 pm

Picture 151 of "The Buckley Railway Album" shows No. 6 with a brake van at Buckley (Old) in 1897.It is possible that this brake van was one of the only two they had, but given that the job of the guards also was to run alongside any trains pinning down brakes on the hoof, they could not have been very effective.
It was rumoured that stopping at Connah's Quay Docks was often problematic!
John
Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...
Avoiding the soaps ...
https://www.greatcentralmodels.co.uk

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jon price
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Re: Private Owner Brake Vans

Postby jon price » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:47 pm

Hi John. Although the Buckley Railway only had two brake vans the Buckley was worked by the WMCQR from 1866 and leased from 1873. The WMCQR had ten 10T vans made by Birmingham Carriage and Wagon Co, and built its own 12T van at Rhosddu in 1903 (according to Boyd, who referenced WN Davies, son of the WMCQR chief engineer, whio worked for the LNWR at Crewe till 1911). The photo in Buckley Album must either be between 1890 and January 1891, or between 1897 and 1903 when No6 was running as an 0-6-2. I suspect that the Buckley vans may well have been out of commission by 1897 given that they must have been heavily used. Unless anyone can say that this doesn't look like a Birmingham Carriage and Wagon product then I assume it to be one of the WMCQR 10 tonners.
brake van.jpg
brake van.jpg (132.29 KiB) Viewed 4264 times
Photo copyright R.E.Thomas, published by Buckley Historical Society
Connah's Quay Workshop threads: viewforum.php?f=125

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steve howe
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Re: Private Owner Brake Vans

Postby steve howe » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:11 pm

Hi Jon,
Where did your wagon transfers come from? (I assume they are transfers) I'm looking for some bespoke transfers for various projects.

Steve

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jon price
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Re: Private Owner Brake Vans

Postby jon price » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:30 pm

Hi Steve. They are from Robert Kosmider at Steam And Things. http://www.steamandthings.com/fpage3.htm I made the payment on the 7th December and after a few queries and PDF proofs for approval they were dispatched on 21st December and arrived on 1st January

They are good for whites, the red is pale compared to say Modelmasters so you couldn't mix them on the same wagon. They detach rapidly (10 seconds), and the film is nice and thin, which means with Microsol they bed down nicely around strapping, and into the cracks between planks, but if you are not careful you can get them folded, although after finding this out with one strip I haven't had any problems since. Depends how many copies you want but mine worked out on the quote at £5 per wagon including design and postage, although he provided a generous allowance for mistakes during applying which means I should get enough to come out at £4 per wagon. I think it would work out expensive for a single wagon though. I don't think he accepts artwork just for printing though, which suits me as I can't use CAD.

I will certainly use his service again.

Jon
Connah's Quay Workshop threads: viewforum.php?f=125

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steve howe
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Re: Private Owner Brake Vans

Postby steve howe » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:00 pm

Thanks for that Jon,

I'll have a look at their website

Steve


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