Excursion Traffic

Winander
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:19 pm

Excursion Traffic

Postby Winander » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:49 pm

I shall be grateful for advice regarding the arrangements for running other company's stock on excursion traffic. My prototype is Windermere on the LNWR in the period mid to late 19th century - nearer mid than late.Being new to modelling, I am finding it difficult to locate information. It seems obvious that the carriages would not be changed, but would the locomotive always be changed for the 'local' company's? For instance, I read somewhere that a 'foreign' locomotive was crewed by a local crew, although that does sound unusual, or is it?

I understand that a 'foreign' crew would be unfamiliar with the route and formal agreements would probably govern such workings and that these would probably differ widely even for agreements of the same company. Perhaps even inter-company rivalry may have influenced such decisions, for instance, the LNWR may be more relaxed regarding the L&Y, but less so with the Midland as they competed on the route north. Or is my imagination running away with me?

Part of the attraction of excursion traffic is the variety of stock, if a variety of locomotives could be added, all the better.

On the same subject, would top of the line stock be used? I have read that railways at that time kept higher stock levels* that may be judged economically desirable in post-grouping and BR, particularly the LNWR, but would this just be a result of not disposing of older stock that may be put into excursion traffic?

Thanks in advance
Richard

* Edit: it is mentioned here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3756
Richard Hodgson

Alan Turner
Posts: 571
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:24 pm

Re: Excursion Traffic

Postby Alan Turner » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:04 am

The problem of modelling railways in and about the 1850's (just after the formation of the LNWR in 1846) is that they operated in a manner unlike the 20th Century and in general the operating practises are un recorded.

My interest. Midland, is difficult to research pre 1880.

regards

Alan

Winander
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Excursion Traffic

Postby Winander » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:20 am

Alan Turner wrote:The problem of modelling railways in and about the 1850's (just after the formation of the LNWR in 1846) is that they operated in a manner unlike the 20th Century and in general the operating practises are un recorded.

My interest. Midland, is difficult to research pre 1880.


Very true Alan. Apart from general history not specific to a company and a few nuggets of specific information, one useful source I have found is accident reports. The NRM have them and the Railways Archive at http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/index.php. The ones I have read are thorough and do give an insight into operating practices. Then there are the specialist societies. I am often surprised by and grateful to the knowledge of people on forums such as this and there willingness to share it.

regards
Richard
Richard Hodgson

Armchair Modeller

Re: Excursion Traffic

Postby Armchair Modeller » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:28 pm

Depending on the date you choose, the braking system in use might have an influence on what might have happened. The LNWR used Clark & Webb chain brakes until the 1880s, so might not have had locos available locally to haul foreign trains, which would have been fitted with simple vacuum, vacuum or Westinghouse brakes. A pilotman would perhaps have been the likely choice.

I think the Furness Railway ran regular trains at least as far as Kendal. If regular FR excursions ran to Lakeside, might the FR crews not learn the whole route anyway?

Winander
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Excursion Traffic

Postby Winander » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:55 pm

Armchair Modeller wrote:Depending on the date you choose, the braking system in use might have an influence on what might have happened. The LNWR used Clark & Webb chain brakes until the 1880s, so might not have had locos available locally to haul foreign trains, which would have been fitted with simple vacuum, vacuum or Westinghouse brakes. A pilotman would perhaps have been the likely choice.


If I understand you correctly, the LNWR locomotives would be unable to (safely) work the foreign stock prior to converting from chain brakes. That's extremely useful information, thank you.

I think the Furness Railway ran regular trains at least as far as Kendal. If regular FR excursions ran to Lakeside, might the FR crews not learn the whole route anyway?


I was specifically asking about excursion traffic, and it's unlikely that the Furness would run such traffic to Windermere, as they had access to the lake on their own line into Lakeside at the south end of the lake. Plus they owned the steamers on the lake. In effect, they were competing with the LNWR for excursion traffic to the lake, although I don't think they made much of it as Lakeside and Newby Bridge would now be more developed than they are. As for normal working, It's not something I have researched.

thanks
Richard
Richard Hodgson

Armchair Modeller

Re: Excursion Traffic

Postby Armchair Modeller » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:42 pm

The Furness did offer circular tours in the Lake District, sometimes including short links by horse & carriage. I only know details for the Coniston branch, having read the Cumbrian Railway Association's excellent book on the branch. I don't actually know one way or the other, but wouldn't rule out a similar circular trip being offered via Windermere, unless there is definitive evidence to the contrary. If you think about it, only the FR had access to enough of the Lake District to be able to offer such a facility. They also seem to have got on reasonably well with the LNWR and had running powers to Kendal from 1876 when their line from Arnside opened.

You did understand me correctly about the brakes.


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