point motors
-
- Posts: 1116
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:39 pm
Re: point motors
What point motors are you using? Some types such as Cobalt and Tortoise have some built in switch capacity, although you may need that to provide the crossing feed.
Re: point motors
Hi tortoise which have 4 switches i will use one for the v polarity but not sure if just use one switch to change point motor feed polarity
-
- Forum Team
- Posts: 3923
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Re: point motors
Why do you want to sequence the operation? Simpler just to connect the two motors in parallel so they operate together.
The current requirements of tortoises are minimal.
If you are using a DPDT switch to operate the tortoise then you would need to use both contacts an the first tortoise to operate the second one. That leaves only the contacts of the second machine free for frog switching or indicating. Operating them in parallel leaves all 4 contacts free and keeps your options open.
If you have a significant number of tortoises then it is generally better to use a split potential power supply and SPDT switches, this is covered in the tortoise instructions.
Regards
The current requirements of tortoises are minimal.
If you are using a DPDT switch to operate the tortoise then you would need to use both contacts an the first tortoise to operate the second one. That leaves only the contacts of the second machine free for frog switching or indicating. Operating them in parallel leaves all 4 contacts free and keeps your options open.
If you have a significant number of tortoises then it is generally better to use a split potential power supply and SPDT switches, this is covered in the tortoise instructions.
Regards
Re: point motors
Hi yes i will probably do that as is the easiest option i did have them moving one after the other on a layout many moons ago but cant remember how i wired them up and i thought it looked nice to have them moving seperately rather than together
-
- Posts: 643
- Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:24 pm
Re: point motors
philpill wrote:Hi yes i will probably do that as is the easiest option i did have them moving one after the other on a layout many moons ago but cant remember how i wired them up and i thought it looked nice to have them moving seperately rather than together
Nice(!) but not prototypical.
regards
Alan
Re: point motors
sorry but what is not protoypical the 2 sets of blades moving at same time or one after the other i not that clued up on the facts
-
- Posts: 2527
- Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:54 pm
Re: point motors
philpill wrote:sorry but what is not protoypical the 2 sets of blades moving at same time or one after the other i not that clued up on the facts
A crossover is likely to have been operated by a single lever, and therefore both points would have moved together,
Re: point motors
having thought on that if a single lever is used the rodding would to travel further to one crank that was furthest from the box so would one crank start moving before the other or would the timelapse be too small to notice
-
- Posts: 825
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:09 pm
Re: point motors
I know nothing about Tortoise motors, but assume a single motor has sufficient power to move more than one pair of switches, in which case another possibility would be to connect with rodding the switches at both ends of the crossover to a single motor.
I imagine remotely worked crossovers must have been almost always arranged so that both switch pairs were operated simultaneously. As usual the Somerset & Dorset's station at Burnham supplied the exception to prove the rule, as the turnouts forming the station's crossover were released from the box but worked by hand lever on the ground. Since we couldn't persuade a 4mm scale figure to walk from one ground lever to the other for this purpose, we adopted a cascaded switching arrangement, in which completion of the throw of one switch pair in the crossover fired the motor to operate the other switch pair. This was straightforward enough given the nature of our home-made point motor design, it being feasible to mount multiple microswitches on the motor that would operate at its end-of-travel position. In turn, that also made possible a logic circuit using microswitches that would backlock the release lever in the signal box frame whenever one of the ground-worked points was thrown.
I imagine remotely worked crossovers must have been almost always arranged so that both switch pairs were operated simultaneously. As usual the Somerset & Dorset's station at Burnham supplied the exception to prove the rule, as the turnouts forming the station's crossover were released from the box but worked by hand lever on the ground. Since we couldn't persuade a 4mm scale figure to walk from one ground lever to the other for this purpose, we adopted a cascaded switching arrangement, in which completion of the throw of one switch pair in the crossover fired the motor to operate the other switch pair. This was straightforward enough given the nature of our home-made point motor design, it being feasible to mount multiple microswitches on the motor that would operate at its end-of-travel position. In turn, that also made possible a logic circuit using microswitches that would backlock the release lever in the signal box frame whenever one of the ground-worked points was thrown.
-
- Posts: 654
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:06 pm
Re: point motors
I'll let the expert points and signals people answer on the prototype timelag, although I always understood the 'pull' went to a central splitter which ensured both sets of switches moved together (certainly I've always set model crossovers up that way). However, my arrangements, both for wire-in-tube and point motor operation, were based on helpful diagrams that used to be around showing the best set-up for different track formations. I have had a quick 'websearch' for these (by which I mean a simple Google and a look at the on-line GOG manual) but can't find them, which makes me wonder whether they were in the EMGS Manual, which I only ever had in paper copy. Maybe a current EMGS member could advise on that, and if there are no copyright issues perhaps share some of the content? Interest declared, I'm about to build a simple facing crossover for mechanical operation (hovering between being brave with 'proper' scale rodding*, or falling back on good old wire-in-tube with cranks and omega loops).
*La Poste has just brought me a stores order containing point rodding stools (in place of fishplates!), guess that determines which way I am going to have to go. But Spooky, or what?
*La Poste has just brought me a stores order containing point rodding stools (in place of fishplates!), guess that determines which way I am going to have to go. But Spooky, or what?
Last edited by dal-t on Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
David L-T
-
- Posts: 643
- Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:24 pm
Re: point motors
Digest 23.6.5 if you are interested.
regards
Alan
regards
Alan
-
- Posts: 561
- Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:49 pm
Re: point motors
Both sets of point blades will move at the same time if operated from a single lever.
There is no time lag, unless there is a number of joints that are a sloppy fit, which is most unlikely.
If you move any long solid object one end moves at the same time as the other in a push pull scenario.
Gordon A
There is no time lag, unless there is a number of joints that are a sloppy fit, which is most unlikely.
If you move any long solid object one end moves at the same time as the other in a push pull scenario.
Gordon A
-
- Forum Team
- Posts: 3923
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Re: point motors
philpill wrote:having thought on that if a single lever is used the rodding would to travel further to one crank that was furthest from the box so would one crank start moving before the other or would the timelapse be too small to notice
My original answer seems to have been lost and now others have answered, definitely to small to notice!
Regards
-
- Posts: 561
- Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:49 pm
Re: point motors
Yard points would be operated independently at a different time as each point would have its own lever.
Using DCC route selection on my sidings I noticed that each point changes at differing times in the sequence that you programme them.
Gordon A
Using DCC route selection on my sidings I noticed that each point changes at differing times in the sequence that you programme them.
Gordon A
-
- Forum Team
- Posts: 3923
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Re: point motors
Monty wrote:Nobody has given an answer on this?
Monty,
What question are you looking for an answer on?
The original question was answered long ago, even though the question has since been edited out leaving the question to be deduced from the answers.
I can't see any other unanswered questions.
Regards
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 0 guests