Pentroller repairs
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Re: Pentroller repairs
For those who might have guessed already, or not, here is one for sale
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222912362861 ... 9#payCntId
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222912362861 ... 9#payCntId
Rod
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Paul,
I bought a Bench Power Supply which is very useful for both testing locos (voltage and current readout), checking motors, testing electronic bits, etc.;
https://www.rapidonline.com/basetech-bt ... 5w-64-6084
Not much more expensive than the HH Pentroller for which Rod has provided the eBay link.
There are other types, brands and suppliers.
Jol
I bought a Bench Power Supply which is very useful for both testing locos (voltage and current readout), checking motors, testing electronic bits, etc.;
https://www.rapidonline.com/basetech-bt ... 5w-64-6084
Not much more expensive than the HH Pentroller for which Rod has provided the eBay link.
There are other types, brands and suppliers.
Jol
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Thanks,
Some great replies and I'm going to test the controller over the next few days for failed components.
Some great replies and I'm going to test the controller over the next few days for failed components.
Ordsall Road (BR(E)), Forge Mill Sidings (BR(M)), Kirkcliffe Coking Plant (BR(E)), Swanage (BR (S)) and Heaby (LMS/MR). Acquired Thorneywood (GNR). Still trying to "Keep the Balance".
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Found the problem ! A burnt out resistor to the right of the directional switch. Now to find a replacement !
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Re: Pentroller repairs
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Re: Pentroller repairs
And my spare pentroller is a different version!
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Last edited by Hardwicke on Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Can anyone identify the burnt out resistor/capacitor in the earlier picture? The alternative (working) one has a capacitor 1J63
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Re: Pentroller repairs
The trouble is that if the resistor has burnt out, then something has sent too much current through it; If you just replace the resistor (not difficult or expensive) It's very likely the same thing might happen again.
I'm sorry this isn't a straightforward answer to your problem!
If you google "Resistor values colours" you'll be able to find the value of your component>
Allan F
I'm sorry this isn't a straightforward answer to your problem!
If you google "Resistor values colours" you'll be able to find the value of your component>
Allan F
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Yes, but the bands are unclear due to the burning. I think I know why it failed.
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Could it be the same as the one next to the switch on your working controller? Mind you, that one looks 'thermally challenged' too...
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Hmm. As the photos show the design changed.
One has a blue resistor/ capacitor, whereas the other has a cream capacitor. It is the blue one I want to know about.
One has a blue resistor/ capacitor, whereas the other has a cream capacitor. It is the blue one I want to know about.
Ordsall Road (BR(E)), Forge Mill Sidings (BR(M)), Kirkcliffe Coking Plant (BR(E)), Swanage (BR (S)) and Heaby (LMS/MR). Acquired Thorneywood (GNR). Still trying to "Keep the Balance".
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Re: Pentroller repairs
This is going to need someone with the same model to look at theirs. Those of us without Pentrollers are not going to be able to help.
Regards
Regards
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Re: Pentroller repairs
I have opened up my HH Pentroller to find that it is the same version as Hardwicke's. And, guess what, the same resistor show signs of overheating.
So, no identifiable markings but testing with a Multimeter shows a resistance of 4.9 ohms. So it is probably a 4.7 Ohm rated resistor. As it is possible for the resistance measured installed to be affected by other components in the circuit I unsoldered it and got the same result when checked off the pcb.
It is probably a .24W or .5W resistance and it may be worth fitting one with a higher rating. That may not be possible in the same location but there is prabably space within the unit to fit one remotely near the motor selector switch with "extension" leads. I'll look into that when S4N is out of the way.
So, no identifiable markings but testing with a Multimeter shows a resistance of 4.9 ohms. So it is probably a 4.7 Ohm rated resistor. As it is possible for the resistance measured installed to be affected by other components in the circuit I unsoldered it and got the same result when checked off the pcb.
It is probably a .24W or .5W resistance and it may be worth fitting one with a higher rating. That may not be possible in the same location but there is prabably space within the unit to fit one remotely near the motor selector switch with "extension" leads. I'll look into that when S4N is out of the way.
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Thanks Jol,
That's an excellent analysis. I may or may not be at S4N.
Michael
That's an excellent analysis. I may or may not be at S4N.
Michael
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Re: Pentroller repairs
4.7 R would have the first two bands as YELLOW, VIOLET. Form what I can see in the photo the first band is RED - suggesting first number is 2.
regards
Alan
regards
Alan
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Unless the red is the tolerance indicator, although 2% is unusual in most applications. The colour at the other end could be gold, which is 5% and more likely. There are no colours visible on the resistor on my HH unit, the outer case having mostly flaked off. I am satisfied with the reading I got, as a increase in resistance would presumably be more consistent with damage. It is also within 5% of the usual 4.7 Ohm rating for resistors.
I'll take a look at the circuit later to get some idea as to where this resistor is in the scheme of things.
I'll take a look at the circuit later to get some idea as to where this resistor is in the scheme of things.
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Michael,
a further trip up to the workshop to investigate the HH Pentroller.
The delinquent resistor in question is in the -ve line from the onboard rectifier to the direction switch inputs (the switch is adjacent). So presumably acts as a voltage/current reducer. The problem may be that a short circuit will probably exceed the wattage rating of the resistor (.25W or .5W).
Or, as Tony Wilkins suggested earlier, is it a fusible resistor and has simply "blown", needing replacement?
Possible solutions;
* Fit a new 4.7 Ohm resistor
* Fit a new fusible resistor
* Fit a larger power handling 4.7 Ohm resistor.
* Add a resettable fuse to the AC input. (5A - 1.0A are available which should be about right.
A look at the Rapid Online site shows fusible resistors of 10 ohm value with variable power ratings, but they are all bigger than a standard resistor.
Also listed is a 2W 4.7 Ohm resistor measuring 12.0 X 3.9 mm which should fit or could be mounted elsewhere with extension leads (as could the fusible type.
The same site shows resettable fuses with various amperage ratings and trip times. That could be mounted in the PSU feeding the controller (all the transformer outputs in the London Road psu are so equipped). The downside is that you might not notice it has tripped. On London Road the control panel has a MES lamp holders with the bulb connected across the controller's output feeds into then box. No light equals no output from the controller.
I hope this helps,
Jol
a further trip up to the workshop to investigate the HH Pentroller.
The delinquent resistor in question is in the -ve line from the onboard rectifier to the direction switch inputs (the switch is adjacent). So presumably acts as a voltage/current reducer. The problem may be that a short circuit will probably exceed the wattage rating of the resistor (.25W or .5W).
Or, as Tony Wilkins suggested earlier, is it a fusible resistor and has simply "blown", needing replacement?
Possible solutions;
* Fit a new 4.7 Ohm resistor
* Fit a new fusible resistor
* Fit a larger power handling 4.7 Ohm resistor.
* Add a resettable fuse to the AC input. (5A - 1.0A are available which should be about right.
A look at the Rapid Online site shows fusible resistors of 10 ohm value with variable power ratings, but they are all bigger than a standard resistor.
Also listed is a 2W 4.7 Ohm resistor measuring 12.0 X 3.9 mm which should fit or could be mounted elsewhere with extension leads (as could the fusible type.
The same site shows resettable fuses with various amperage ratings and trip times. That could be mounted in the PSU feeding the controller (all the transformer outputs in the London Road psu are so equipped). The downside is that you might not notice it has tripped. On London Road the control panel has a MES lamp holders with the bulb connected across the controller's output feeds into then box. No light equals no output from the controller.
I hope this helps,
Jol
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Yes, I believe there was a short in the layout before the unit failed.
Ordsall Road (BR(E)), Forge Mill Sidings (BR(M)), Kirkcliffe Coking Plant (BR(E)), Swanage (BR (S)) and Heaby (LMS/MR). Acquired Thorneywood (GNR). Still trying to "Keep the Balance".
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Re: Pentroller repairs
I thought I'd got the correct resistor in stock but no. Difficult to make out the colours under the burning. I have some 4.7Ω resistors but they have the wrong bands that are visible. The errant component is between the direction switch and this...
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Maroon band at top. Maroon or brown next. Don't know. Gold at bottom.
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Re: Pentroller repairs
I guess that is the onboard rectifier Jol. (Electronics are my weak point).
Ordsall Road (BR(E)), Forge Mill Sidings (BR(M)), Kirkcliffe Coking Plant (BR(E)), Swanage (BR (S)) and Heaby (LMS/MR). Acquired Thorneywood (GNR). Still trying to "Keep the Balance".
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Re: Pentroller repairs
An investigation into the post on the other place shows it as R29 2.2 (0.33 to 2.2Ω) on the "experimentroller".
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Re: Pentroller repairs
Yes, the component with the polarity markings would be a rectifier.
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Re: Pentroller repairs
I expect the burnt resistor acts as a current sensor and provides an input to the control circuit, needs replacing with a higher wattage rated part as suggested.
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Re: Pentroller repairs
The round component with the polarity markings is indeed a bridge rectifier. The ~ markings are the AC inputs and the + the positive output, the unmarked leg being the negative output.
As far as I can ascertain from my Pentrollers the burnt out resistor was 0.22R.
Due to precisely this failure mode, mine have been unofficially modified as follows.
The large green resistor in the foreground is a 0.22R wire-wound vitreous enamel 2.5 Watt resistor made by Welwyn. They have a high overload rating to cope with short high current peaks.
The underside of the PCB has a 1N4002 1 Amp diode soldered across the controller side of the switch to protect against reverse voltages damaging the controller circuity. Note the line marking the Cathode end of the device.
This can occur when two track circuits using controllers set to opposite directions become accidentally bridged.
Since my two Pentrollers were thus modified, I have had no further issues with failures.
However one should not allow a short condition to persist for any length of time or things will get hot, then very hot.
The .1j63 component would be a 0.1microfarad capacitor rated 63 Volts.
Regards
Tony.
As far as I can ascertain from my Pentrollers the burnt out resistor was 0.22R.
Due to precisely this failure mode, mine have been unofficially modified as follows.
The large green resistor in the foreground is a 0.22R wire-wound vitreous enamel 2.5 Watt resistor made by Welwyn. They have a high overload rating to cope with short high current peaks.
The underside of the PCB has a 1N4002 1 Amp diode soldered across the controller side of the switch to protect against reverse voltages damaging the controller circuity. Note the line marking the Cathode end of the device.
This can occur when two track circuits using controllers set to opposite directions become accidentally bridged.
Since my two Pentrollers were thus modified, I have had no further issues with failures.
However one should not allow a short condition to persist for any length of time or things will get hot, then very hot.
The .1j63 component would be a 0.1microfarad capacitor rated 63 Volts.
Regards
Tony.
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