Layout Wiring (Heat shrink sleeving etc. etc)

User avatar
grovenor-2685
Forum Team
Posts: 3917
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm

Layout Wiring (Heat shrink sleeving etc. etc)

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:40 pm

yes, this topic has gone a long way from heat shrink sleeving, I'll have to work out where to split the topic.
Meanwhile I would agree with/suggest the following:
1. There is no need for multiple power districts on a 12ft branch terminal, St Merryn (of SLAG) has one example has just the one supply, my loft layout has just the one supply and normally has 12 - 16 locos on the tracks with 4 or 5 moving. Depending on what you do in the fiddle yard it may be worth having a subsidiary cut out for the fiddle yard so shorts in that section caused by the 'fiddling' don't affect the visible area.
2. Wire of 32/0.2 is suitable for the DCC bus wiring and is more than adequate for a layout of that size or quite a lot bigger, My DCC bus runs about 25 feet in either direction from the power unit and there is no trouble with the coin test at the extremities.
3. For interboard connections I used Molex type crimp plugs and sockets designed for that size. I had mine before I went DCC so most now have lots of spare pins. They are/were available from 2 to 12 pins, most of mine are 9 or 12 with just 2 in use! This sort of thing
molex.jpg

At that time they were sold by Tandy, now they seem very hard to get. Alternatives would be computer psu connectors or plug in terminal blocks of this type http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?tier1=Cables+%26+Connectors&tier2=Connectors-Terminal+Block&tier3=Pluggable&tier4=12A+Plug-in+Terminal+blocks&moduleno=74998 The only problem is that the socket half need to be soldered to a piece of stripboard.
regards
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

derekrussan
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:02 pm

Re: Heat Shrink Sleeving

Postby derekrussan » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:24 am

beakie wrote:Ok Guys Throught u were here to help.................

I'm here to learn, helping is an unfortunate side effect.
beakie wrote:Tim can you tell me what the ratings are for Banana Plugs, as this was part of my post. In interconnecting between Baseboards, on a 5amp DCC Power Bus, I guess I though this was a factor. I leave my self open to advice here.

Banana plugs are minimum of 5A, typically 10A some are 15. You have to read the specific manufacturers spec. Bunch plugs have higher rating than single spring. Good for a single plug for DCC. Bad in there is no flying socket or fixed plug. So to use Banana plugs there are 2 options, Sockets on both boards with a plug to plug lead which I do not like for reasons explained elsewhere in this reply or to have flying leads permanantly attached to one baseboard (downstream from power source) and sockets on the other board, even worse option as loose leads outside the protection for the board are at risk and not easy to swap in a replacement.
beakie wrote:So sorry Derek, totally thick..... :mrgreen:

I still dont understand, other than the relavence of accidently pluging 230v into a 12/16v system. I understand that if you have a Live, in the socket, you can't inadvertantly plug the Male into it unless it was intended. This just seems so oblivous, but that might suggest I havn't grasped it yet. So sorry .... surely I am misunderstanding the application to this rule. This Power buss is 12-16v Ac.

I thought the 230V mains analogy was crystal clear. I am not talking about mixing 12V with 230V. whatever rules are needed for 230V AC should also be applied to 12V DC and 16V AC. So from basics,

1. If you have any voltage present on the pins of a plug be it 12V DC or 230V AC there is a risk that some metallic object could short them. This cannot happen on a socket. So all powered pins should always be in sockets, never on plugs.
2. If you have a voltage present on pins they could touch something that does no like them. Humans and 230V AC is one example, Transistors or LED's and 12V DC or DC motors and 16V AC is another. Again cannot happen with a socket

Not so obvious:
3. If all interconnects are Male to Female then if you need a longer extension you can just plug 2 interconnect leads together.


derekrussan wrote:[
PC, not in India, trip cancelled 1 hour before I left home. 6 days, 8 flights, 7 meetings, different city every night - proof there is a god.
beakie wrote:So sorry about the trip to India, Beakie put the mochas on it.......

Maybe god does not exist and I owe beakie a beer instead.
Derek Russan, Eileens Emporium.

derekrussan
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:02 pm

Re: Heat Shrink Sleeving

Postby derekrussan » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:47 am

grovenor-2685 wrote:3. For interboard connections I used Molex type crimp plugs and sockets designed for that size. I had mine before I went DCC so most now have lots of spare pins. They are/were available from 2 to 12 pins, most of mine are 9 or 12 with just 2 in use!

...

The only problem is that the socket half need to be soldered to a piece of stripboard.

They are readily available from trade suppliers (RS, Farnell, Rapid etc) 2 similar families Amp Modulo and Molex Mini Fit.

There are 3 fitting options, PCB mount, flying lead and panel mount (square cutout) so PCB is not needed.

The pins are designed for crimping and the tools to do this are expensive, they are a bit of a pig to crimp without. Even if you solder you have to bend the crimp tags to get them into the holes. If you get the hang of it they are great.

The male/female connector discussion gets even more complex as you have 4 options, Male/female shells and male/female pins. For the safety rules previously discussed the shell dominates. Female shell and female pin is the safest combo for live pins.

With a 9A rating they are good for DCC.

Derek
Derek Russan, Eileens Emporium.

beakie

Re: Heat Shrink Sleeving

Postby beakie » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:27 pm

derekrussan wrote:
beakie wrote:Ok Guys Throught u were here to help.................

I'm here to learn, helping is an unfortunate side effect.

Guys I feel I should apologise for this, it was pure frustration and was an over reaction to some things that were said.
I have researched and read a lot of other peoples threads on other forums, which vary, and some people have differing opinions. This I need to understand more in future. :(

derekrussan wrote:I'm here to learn, helping is an unfortunate side effect.

Derek, I would agree, we are all seeking the best way to do things from other peoples experience, which is something I value immensely. I wouldn't describe helping others as unfortunate, to give something back is good and I hope I can do this in the future. I for one appreciate your "Side effect" :)

derekrussan wrote:
beakie wrote:Tim can you tell me what the ratings are for Banana Plugs, as this was part of my post. In interconnecting between Baseboards, on a 5amp DCC Power Bus, I guess I though this was a factor. I leave my self open to advice here.

Banana plugs are minimum of 5A, typically 10A some are 15. You have to read the specific manufacturers spec. Bunch plugs have higher rating than single spring. Good for a single plug for DCC. Bad in there is no flying socket or fixed plug. So to use Banana plugs there are 2 options, Sockets on both boards with a plug to plug lead which I do not like for reasons explained elsewhere in this reply or to have flying leads permanantly attached to one baseboard (downstream from power source) and sockets on the other board, even worse option as loose leads outside the protection for the board are at risk and not easy to swap in a replacement.

I have looked at various connectors, in a Maplins Catalogue, and I have checked the Tech Spec and very often there isn't any. Did find these though, which looked useful. http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?cri ... &source=15

grovenor-2685 wrote:Meanwhile I would agree with/suggest the following:
1. There is no need for multiple power districts on a 12ft branch terminal, St Merryn (of SLAG) has one example has just the one supply, my loft layout has just the one supply and normally has 12 - 16 locos on the tracks with 4 or 5 moving. Depending on what you do in the fiddle yard it may be worth having a subsidiary cut out for the fiddle yard so shorts in that section caused by the 'fiddling' don't affect the visible area.

Thanks Kieth, I guess the reason you and Tim are saying this, is because if the system did shut down it wouldn't take long to find the fault. I had read on the Rm/Dcc forum and the http://wiringfordcc.com the usefulness of using, Power Districts or Sub Districts( may be the latter in my instance) in fault finding. Guess in planning, just trying to incorporate anything that might be useful at a later date.

grovenor-2685 wrote:2. Wire of 32/0.2 is suitable for the DCC bus wiring and is more than adequate for a layout of that size or quite a lot bigger, My DCC bus runs about 25 feet in either direction from the power unit and there is no trouble with the coin test at the extremities.

Thanks for the clarification on the wire size(32/.02). Thats a huge help Kieth.

grovenor-2685 wrote:3. For interboard connections I used Molex type crimp plugs and sockets designed for that size. I had mine before I went DCC so most now have lots of spare pins. They are/were available from 2 to 12 pins, most of mine are 9 or 12 with just 2 in use! This sort of thing
molex.jpg

At that time they were sold by Tandy, now they seem very hard to get. Alternatives would be computer psu connectors or plug in terminal blocks of this type http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?tier1=Cables+%26+Connectors&tier2=Connectors-Terminal+Block&tier3=Pluggable&tier4=12A+Plug-in+Terminal+blocks&moduleno=74998 The only problem is that the socket half need to be soldered to a piece of stripboard.
regards

Thanks Kieth. :D Pictures help immensely for a newbie. A suitably rated Multi-pin Plug sems good...

derekrussan wrote:
beakie wrote:Guess I'm thinking about a Dcc Power Buss, interconnecting between baseboards.. Possible 5amp.
Was originally thinking of a Male/Female connection(all should the buss be terminated, at baseboard ends with Female sockets) and interlinked with a Male to Male leads.

I hope this means you are now no longer planning to put female connectors on both ends of the baseboards and will never ever decide to make a male to male lead.
Derek.

I would be grateful if you could explain the method in which this would be done(5amp Power Buss/Between Boards(only 3)) :?:
(Termination/Male-Female) Sounds like a Adult Education lesson ;)
derekrussan wrote:The male/female connector discussion gets even more complex as you have 4 options, Male/female shells and male/female pins. For the safety rules previously discussed the shell dominates. Female shell and female pin is the safest combo for live pins.

Think you are trying to explain this above. Very sorry.... I dont understand. :(

Very sorry if this thread has been drawn out and hope I have not offended any one in any way.

Regards Dave

derekrussan
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:02 pm

Re: Heat Shrink Sleeving

Postby derekrussan » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:09 pm

derekrussan wrote:I'm here to learn, helping is an unfortunate side effect.

I should have included a big smiley, sorry.

beakie wrote:Think you are trying to explain this above. Very sorry.... I dont understand. :(

beakie wrote:I would be grateful if you could explain the method in which this would be done(5amp Power Buss/Between Boards(only 3)) :?:
(Termination/Male-Female) Sounds like a Adult Education lesson ;)

Male/Female is universal industry technolgy and easily understood. Some manufacturers also use Plug/Socket or even Header/Receptacle :?:

Let's keep it simple. This crabby diagram of power distribution for DCC should show where plugs should be used and where sockets should be.
Wiring.jpg

No plug is ever live.

beakie wrote:I have looked at various connectors, in a Maplins Catalogue, and I have checked the Tech Spec and very often there isn't any. Did find these though, which looked useful. http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?cri ... &source=15

Maplin is a retail / hobby supplier, look to professional trade suppliers, or manufacturers for reliable and complete info. Frequently better prices too. From Farnell you will get a part from a specified manufacturer to a known specification, from Maplin and most hobby suppliers you will often get generic parts. If you buy from a trader at a model show ask, they mostly stock the cheapest parts they can get.

Try searching on http://www.farnell.com for parts you plan to use and almost all have a complete specification pdf, some examples found

Banana Plugs:
Expensive 15A sockets - http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/43704.pdf
Cheap 10A plugs - http://www.dem-uk.com/DEM_PDFs/550.pdf
Assorted including Bunch Plugs - http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/92538.pdf

For Minifit:
Plug - http://www.molex.com/catalog/pdf/MX5559b.pdf
Sockets - http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/109461.pdf
Panel mount - http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/71230.pdf
etc.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Derek Russan, Eileens Emporium.

beakie

Layout Wiring (Heat shrink sleeving etc. etc)

Postby beakie » Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:38 am

derekrussan wrote:
Let's keep it simple. This crabby diagram of power distribution for DCC should show where plugs should be used and where sockets should be.

No plug is ever live.

Thanks Derek, that is crystal, like 3D glasses :D

beakie wrote:I have looked at various connectors, in a Maplins Catalogue, and I have checked the Tech Spec and very often there isn't any. Did find these though, which looked useful. http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?cri ... &source=15
derekrussan wrote:Maplin is a retail / hobby supplier, look to professional trade suppliers, or manufacturers for reliable and complete info. Frequently better prices too. From Farnell you will get a part from a specified manufacturer to a known specification, from Maplin and most hobby suppliers you will often get generic parts. If you buy from a trader at a model show ask, they mostly stock the cheapest parts they can get..

Thanks, again. I have created an account with Farnell and there is a big difference

Thanks for your time in putting the links in, they certainly clarified the difference.

Think we are finished here, Kieth :D

derekrussan
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:02 pm

Re: Layout Wiring (Heat shrink sleeving etc. etc)

Postby derekrussan » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:56 pm

As promised earlier, photos of how to put solder end on wire:

1. Start
W1.jpg

Cut sleeve and pull back, but not off end.
W2.jpg

Twist tight
W3.jpg

Solder and remove iron from cut end incase of blob it is there. (Iron left on for photo causing some melting of sleeve)
W4.jpg

Cut off to length
W5.jpg


QED, one nice clean, non frayed, soldered wire.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Derek Russan, Eileens Emporium.


Return to “Electrics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 0 guests