Eridge Mk2

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Rod Cameron
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Eridge Mk2

Postby Rod Cameron » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:10 am

Some of you may know that we (KAG) are doing a complete rebuild of Eridge due to sagging baseboards on Mk1. The new one has trackbed boards 8 ft long and quite deep :o , to which foamboard carcass scenic boards will plug in. Support is on gantries at 4 ft intervals, secured in pairs with x-struts which make them really solid and quick to assemble.

Here is where we are so far - trackbuilding to commence shortly.

260608 001.jpg

260608 002.jpg

260608 003.jpg

260608 009.jpg

260608 011.jpg
Rod

modelmaker87

Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby modelmaker87 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:23 am

Hey Rod,

By the look of the photos looks like a brand new layout. Have you salvaged much from the original layout, buildings and such...? I read your post about your signals, are these salvage or brand new...?

Cheers, Tony Sissons

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Dave K
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Dave K » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:43 am

Rod Cameron wrote:and quite deep


I know you say and I can see it, but how deep are they :?:

Dave Keeler

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Rod Cameron » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:30 am

modelmaker87 wrote:Hey Rod,

By the look of the photos looks like a brand new layout. Have you salvaged much from the original layout, buildings and such...? I read your post about your signals, are these salvage or brand new...?

Cheers, Tony Sissons


Hi Tony

We salvaged the buildings, platforms, trees etc but not any track. There wasn't anything wrong with the trackwork per se, but the original work was done BT (Before Templot) and there were some compromises in the plan that we had to make because of board joints etc. Now we don't have to because there are only three main boards, and 80% of the pointwork is on one of them. The signals are the same as the ones before - still under construction! - so no loss there. It seems a big deal, but we hadn't really got round to serious detailing so it won't take that much to get back to where we were before, this time with a (hopefully) more future-proofed construction.
Rod

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Rod Cameron » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:34 am

dave k wrote:[how deep are they :?:


Hi Dave

Eight inches :shock: Not sure how that figure came about, something to do with "these boards ain't gonna sag!" and the need to accommodate Tortoises, signal operating units etc. Also there is some sub-trackbed topography to include. Probably OTT, but the entire construction is with 6mm ply so they're very light.
Rod

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:19 pm

hi Rod,

The deep baseboards are a good idea in terms of strength. Richard Darby is our carpenter on Burntisland and we went for the deep boards. (About the same depth as on Eridge Mk 2) The reasoning being the same. They have been very stable up to now despite being stored in warm conditions in my Garage room, but more recently in a house basement with minimal heating up to now, although we are looking at anti-frost heating for the winter. Richard screwed the boards together to allow for the large extensions we are now working on, with no adverse effect. They are solidly built although the first boards were thin and narrow-caused by the restraints of the competition. We required the construction of under board bridges to carry a second layer of signal relays below the level of the point motors. I am sure you will have little movement once you have made them, clearly this technique can be relied on. There has only been one drawback we have come across so far, that is the weight, especially when boards are blocked together in pairs with end pieces. Now even larger boards are being built, once paired it may take even more teamwork to move them - the old back is not getting any younger. I am building new boards for my own layout Dubbieside, which was originally built using 5Ply and open topped all these years ago and has not sagged at all, although heavy to move around. The new extention uses high density styrofoam and thin MDF throughout. The main line oval measures 8ft x 20ft (2400 x 6000 mm.)with 200mm width x 50mm. depth boards. The entire baseboards can be carried in one hand easily. Since this is new experimental construction by me, I am not going to rush to recommend it at this stage - we will see how it goes after the Wigan and Glasgow shows. Strength and lightness are evident already. I have some new ideas to try on legs as well. The layout features no bolting together and automatic electrical connections - no plugs, again I will not recommend until I am sure it will give trouble free running and is structuraly stable. I must say I like what you are doing with Eridge - there is a nice flow already, I do think railways should flow.


You mentioned you were using the computer program to design the layout. This was successfully used on Burntisland, we now use complete full sized print outs for making the track. perhaps I can convince Fergus Duncan to put up some ideas as he is the expert in the group. One thing which was not considered on the program is the placing of signals and point rodding and not enough allowance was made for this at the planning stage, causing a few problems for yours truly the signaling engineer. Clearances for platforms, tunnels etc have also to be thought about. I am assuming you have already considered this and have not made the same mistake as ourselves. I mention it as there may well be others out there reading this and it will allow them to avoid ending up with the same degree of angst. I am already looking forward to seeing your layout out on the circuit some time. More power to your elbow!

Allan

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Rod Cameron » Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:30 pm

Hi Allan

Thanks for the comments - and it's nice to know we're not alone in our designs!

Regarding clearances for platforms, the Mk2 is (or should be!) the same as Mk1 in that area so the existing platforms should fit. A little trimming might be required, but that is all.

For signals, points and rodding etc we know that the main baseboard joins don't clash with anything (by design not luck!) and any additional cross bracing under the trackbed will be placed in accordance with motors etc. In fact one of my tasks before tracklaying and anything more happens is to mark up on the Templot plan where all the signals and motors etc will go so we know ahead of time.

Also, the basic point rodding plan has already been devised, and where necessary sleepers on Templot have already been suitably shoved so that provided the trackbuilders follow the sleeper positions on the plan we should be OK 8-) .
Rod

Terry Bendall
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:55 am

Looks very nice Rod. Will you be able to take it to exhibitions? If so when will it be finished so that I can invite you to Scaleforum? :)

Terry Bendall

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:33 am

hi Rod ,
looks like you have thought of most things. Burntisland has, for us, been a chance to try out things which as individuals and as a group we have not tried before and therefor has been good fun, although a lot of work. As a group, sharing of ideas has been paramount. The use of the computer system in the preparation of the layout has been very successful and can be recommended to others trying it out for the very first time. Access to a large plotter has also been very useful. On the new extension we have a rather bizarre piece of trackwork built for the ferry terminal. A real challenge to Fergus in reproducing it using the program, but it seems all things are possible. Sorry I don't have any photographs as yet, but I am sure some will be published in due course.
Are your baseboard legs of the type that fold flat? My friend Richard Chown has built them for his large French layout Allendenac. I was taken by how quickly they fold up for transportation, requiring no bolting together. The layout was attached using pegs in the leg tops going into holes in the baseboard ends, which simply dropped on, taking only minutes to assemble.

Allan

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Rod Cameron » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:30 am

Terry Bendall wrote:Will you be able to take it to exhibitions? If so when will it be finished so that I can invite you to Scaleforum? :)


Hi Terry

Yes it is intended for exhibiting, and Mk1 was actually shown at Scaleforum 2000 (very embryonic), St Albans, Brighton, Beckenham and Carshalton & Sutton in various stages of development. There are some pictures in http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=394

As for being finished, I have no idea (but maybe you could pencil us in for 2011 to provide some incentive!). We can have a chat about it at Scaleforum in September (or at Wells if you're planning to visit - I'll be operating on Matford)?
Rod

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Rod Cameron » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:45 am

Allan Goodwillie wrote:
Are your baseboard legs of the type that fold flat? My friend Richard Chown has built them for his large French layout Allendenac. I was taken by how quickly they fold up for transportation, requiring no bolting together. The layout was attached using pegs in the leg tops going into holes in the baseboard ends, which simply dropped on, taking only minutes to assemble.


Allan

The x-struts are fitted and released quickly (bolts and wing nuts in slots rather than holes so you only have to unscrew a couple of turns to release them). Then you are just left with a series of glorified goal-posts (incorporating the track and scenic board support and the lighting gantry) which will stack flat in the van. Each trackbed board sits on a connected pair of uprights, and the foamboard-based scenic boards will then just be attached jigsaw-fashion from the sides, possibly using no more than magnets for positioning. So, what, 10-15 minutes to put up or take down?
Rod

pinkmouse

Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby pinkmouse » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:45 pm

Rod Cameron wrote:Regarding clearances for platforms, the Mk2 is (or should be!) the same as Mk1 in that area so the existing platforms should fit. A little trimming might be required, but that is all.


Unfortunately not, we offered them up to the track plan the other week, and it looks like they will need to be rebuilt. You'll be glad to know that the canopies will be fine as-is though.;)

al/trainee sleeper stainer, Eridge MkII

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Rod Cameron » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:52 pm

pinkmouse wrote:Unfortunately not, we offered them up to the track plan the other week, and it looks like they will need to be rebuilt.


B****r! :? Is it worth adjusting the track alignment slightly to accommodate them?

You'll be glad to know that the canopies will be fine as-is though.;)


Good, that's far more significant! :D
Rod

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:06 pm

hi Rod,

Risking being a pest here, but I am very interested in your project and your approach. I am interested in how you construct your scenery, are you using polyboard profiles? On my Grayrigg layout, everything is of light construction and the entire scenery can be removed and other scenery dropped in to give an entirely different scene. It struck me about 20 years ago that if you are building a layout the majority of time is spent making boards, wiring, track, stock etc. and if you are lucky perhaps 20% of your time on scenics.Why not build a layout that has no permanent scenery and even some hidden tracks which could be revealed for a different scene? My son Dave was keen to help build a model of Grayrigg on the West Coast Main Line and when considered, the layout was capable of extension with a hidden branch line which could lead to an entirely different layout based on the main line going up through Fife or the Waverley Route.This will require another 20% in time but we will end up with a completely different scene. My friend Richard Chown has been profiling with drop in chicken wire and rollup scenery. The Grayrigg scenery is complete and the layout running. This year I am building engines, one per month, for the layout.So it will probably be next winter before I tackle the second scene. I can show you some photos if you are interested. Grayrigg is set in autumn.I have simply carved the scenic sections out of block polystyrene and covered them with carpet underfelt and the usual Woodland Scenics materials.
On my Dubbieside layout I have been building a lightweight extension with drop in pieces which allow you to believe in a more complex background than actually exists. It works like a large stage set, having had a fair bit of experience in this field.I was told off one time when we were up at the Dundee show, by a lady, who had enquired if it was possible to come around the back of the layout to have a look at the ships there. She was most disappointed to discover that only funnels and masts were modelled. I suppose this is all very heretical, but it is my layout and we are trying to create an illusion after all.

Allan

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Rod Cameron » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:18 pm

Hi Allan

No problem at all, ask away!

We haven't actually started any of the scenic boards yet. On the old version with the full width boards the scenic base was traditional ply formers, chicken wire and plaster-soaked cloth, with garden centre hanging basket liner as a quick fix for ground cover. It all added to the weight of the boards! :x We have loads of 3mm foamboard (at one time we were thinking about using this for trackbase) so that will probably form the basis of the scenery. At one end the railway is slightly higher than the surrounds (the real one is built on made ground across a valley) and at the other it disappears into a shallow cutting and under a three-arch bridge (modeller's licence ;) ).

I'd heard about your interchangeable seasonal scenic boards, which I'd be interested to see, but I think we'll start with just the one set for now! It would need several sets of trees for starters! :o
Rod

Terry Bendall
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Terry Bendall » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:28 pm

Rod

Consider yourselves provisionally booked - but I must get 2009 and 2010 sorted out first! See you and anyone else on the group who wants to chat and especially if you want to offer layouts for exhibition at Wells.

Terry Bendall

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Rod Cameron » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:57 am

Couple of weeks old now, but the first new trackwork has now been laid (photo by Pinkmouse).

Mk2 first track.jpg


Yes I know the triangular gauge is the wrong way round but on that curvature I have a sneaking suspicion it makes no difference ;)

The bits in the foreground are Mike Ainsworth's design for providing strengthened attachments at board ends whilst still being able to have authentic ballast packing around the chairs (which you wouldn't be able to do if the rail was just soldered to copperclad). I took a photo of the prototype some while ago (some PCB, brass rod, oversize rivet holes in sleepers):

260608 012.jpg
Rod

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:59 am

Rod,I like this, I will maybe adapt it for my extension to Dubbieside which I am working on at the moment. It is either that or use the etch that is available and which Richard Darby and I are trying out on Blackston Junction.

Allan
Attachments
BJ101.jpg
Here is a photo of Blackston Junc. Two trains passing at a very lonely wintry West Lothian Junction

pinkmouse

Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby pinkmouse » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:50 pm

That track in the pic is actually only fixed to Mike's patent end supports, the rest is just floating on the sleepers. It still looks pretty good though! I'll get some better pics tomorrow night, when something is fixed down. Rod, I reckon we'll be ready for the signals in a week or so. ;)

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John Bateson
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby John Bateson » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:24 pm

I use a different method, although I guess similar in intent. The final sleeper on a section is single sided PCB with the copper upwards and an electrical break sandpapered over the centre. This is firmly fixed or glued to the baseboard. I thread brass chairs from one of two suppliers as the last chair on a section of rail and then use solder paste flooded under the chair to make a rigid base.
I also found it easier to ensure alignment by running a single rail over the joint (at least 20cm on each side) with two brass chairs at the correct points and only saw through the break once everything is finally set and soldered and then trim the pcb sleeper to 8ft 6ins before ballasting.
Picture shows the result - it works but the camera is never kind.
John
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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Rod Cameron » Thu May 07, 2009 9:11 am

Further updates on this will continue as a new topic over on Area Groups/Kent
Rod

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Penrhos1920
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Penrhos1920 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:41 am

How have you manged to curve 6mm ply for the baseboard sides without it twisting? Could you post a photo of the underside of a curved board please.

Thanks,
Richard
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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Rod Cameron » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:56 pm

Hi Richard

Just with crosspieces, wood glue and clamps to bend the side pieces to match the board top. Hope these photos explain:

Eridge boards 190108 007.jpg
Eridge boards 190108 007.jpg (69.65 KiB) Viewed 9748 times

Eridge boards 190108 009.jpg
Eridge boards 190108 009.jpg (68.9 KiB) Viewed 9745 times


I don't think the champagne bottles had any real function at this time!
Rod

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Penrhos1920
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Penrhos1920 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:13 pm

Thanks Rod,

Is it normal PVA wood glue? I tried No More Nails on a couple of baseboards about 7 years ago and it is going brittle now.
Getting it Alright

Penrhos Junctions near Caerphilly - Barry Rly, Rhymney Rly and A(N&SW)D&R 1920 and pseudo modern image in S4F
and
Awrhyllgwami for DEMU challenge
and
Dispelling the P4 drop in wheel myth
and
TOERAG Obergruppenführer

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2

Postby Rod Cameron » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:28 pm

Yes, just PVA wood glue.
Rod


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