CCUs torsion or beam?

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steve howe
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CCUs torsion or beam?

Postby steve howe » Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:40 pm

Does anyone have a preference for either the torsion or beam type CCU both offered by our Stores? I may have some RTR conversions to do soon for the Club project and would be interested to know the options, (no doubt the springing brigade will be reaching for their ammunition... :D)

Steve

Tony Wilkins
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Re: CCUs torsion or beam?

Postby Tony Wilkins » Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:14 pm

steve howe wrote:Does anyone have a preference for either the torsion or beam type CCU both offered by our Stores? I may have some RTR conversions to do soon for the Club project and would be interested to know the options, (no doubt the springing brigade will be reaching for their ammunition... :D)

Steve

Hi Steve.
My preference is for the MJT torsion CCU, which I have used successfully for many years. They do need to be set up correctly to begin with.
If the beam design is the type I think it is, it is the very early design as developed for use on Heckmondwike and although the system works well, relies on equalising beams bearing directly on the axles and thus have greater friction than the pin point variants, thus not really suitable for long trains.

Regards
Tony.
Inspiration from the past. Dreams for the future.

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zebedeesknees
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Re: CCUs torsion or beam?

Postby zebedeesknees » Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:51 pm

steve howe wrote:(no doubt the springing brigade will be reaching for their ammunition... :D)

Steve

No need, you clearly know that we're right!

Ted.
(A purists' purist)

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: CCUs torsion or beam?

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:24 pm

I prefer the Brassmaster's torsion bogies, easy to assemble and with a retaining bolt rather than the pop stud used on MJT. I found that some of the pop studs had a very square section pressed stud that prevented the bogie from rotating evenly.

To keep Ted happy I have used Masokits sprung bogies for six wheel bogies.

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Will L
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Re: CCUs torsion or beam?

Postby Will L » Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:45 pm

steve howe wrote:Does anyone have a preference for either the torsion or beam type CCU both offered by our Stores? I may have some RTR conversions to do soon for the Club project and would be interested to know the options, (no doubt the springing brigade will be reaching for their ammunition... :D)

Steve

The beam type will defiantly limit you train lengths.

We used the MJT torsion bar type on Knutsford which run very nicely, but we discovered they put too much strain on the solder joints at the end of the torsion bars, which then failed over time.

I'd like to know how those who have used these for years have managed to avoid this problem.

Anyway, as a result Dick Petter designed the conversion kits produced by Palatine Models which fixed the problem. They also produce kits which include the improved design from the start. This mod also gets away from the MTJ press stud approach which failed us because nobody told the press stud manufactures they needed to make the two halves of all press studs interchangeable. They just aren't, so neither were our apparently identical bogies.

Also as Jol says, Brassmasters produce something along the same lines.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: CCUs torsion or beam?

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:47 pm

Will L wrote:I'd like to know how those who have used these for years have managed to avoid this problem.

In my case I avoided the solder joints and just let the side frame pivot on the wire.

Will L wrote:This mod also gets away from the MTJ press stud approach which failed us because nobody told the press stud manufactures they needed to make the two halves of all press studs interchangeable.

I concluded that this was a supply quality problem, the early ones I had the press studs were and are still fine. Later ones refused to turn easily from the start and were quickly retired.
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Keith
Grovenor Sidings

Tony Wilkins
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Re: CCUs torsion or beam?

Postby Tony Wilkins » Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:49 pm

Jol is quite right. Early on I had problems with a few coaches derailing on curves and investigation revealed that some press studs had preferred positions preventing the bogie from pivoting. As a matter of course I now go round the neck of the peg with a rat tailed needle file to remove the ridges and make sure the bogie turns easily. I also check that the spring wire in the socket half is free to move after soldering it to the baseplate.

The problem Will describes is one that I have encountered and have used a larger solder fillet as a result. I have also experimented with altering one set of MJTs so that one half of the bogie frame pivots on the torsion bar. This was necessitated by the fact that this pair of bogies was given to me with white metal sideframes Araldited securely in place and a failed solder joint to one of the side members (which is probably why they gave them to me in the first place). I have always fixed my cosmetic (generally plastic) sideframes with a glue whose bond can be broken for this very reason. In fact most of the faults I have had with these bogies is with Evostick failure causing the sideframes to fall off.
Regards
Tony.
Inspiration from the past. Dreams for the future.

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steve howe
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Re: CCUs torsion or beam?

Postby steve howe » Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:58 pm

Thanks for that guys, it looks like a general consensus for torsion. I'll have a look at the Brassmasters version as well. :thumb

Steve

Tony Wilkins
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Re: CCUs torsion or beam?

Postby Tony Wilkins » Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:10 pm

Hi Steve.
It seems a bit arbitrary anyway as the stores only stocks the Palatine conversion kits for the MJT CCUs, which are currently shown as OOS.
I did purchased some MJT CCUs direct from Dart castings a while back so they can still be had. The Brassmasters version may be a better bet.
Regards
Tony.
Inspiration from the past. Dreams for the future.

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Will L
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Re: CCUs torsion or beam?

Postby Will L » Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:27 am

Tony Wilkins wrote:Hi Steve.
It seems a bit arbitrary anyway as the stores only stocks the Palatine conversion kits for the MJT CCUs, which are currently shown as OOS.

The full Palatine CCU kits are available from the stores although a slightly more limited range, and if you can get the MJT originals from else where then you can get everything needed.

steve howe wrote:... (no doubt the springing brigade will be reaching for their ammunition... :D)

As one of those who might be seen as part of Steve's springing brigade, while I might still prefer a fully sprung solution, I would happily accept that the Palatine Modified version is an effective solution.

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Hardwicke
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Re: CCUs torsion or beam?

Postby Hardwicke » Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:23 am

A bit late on the reply but I'm trawling through the forum..
I stopped using the MJT torsion bar ones after almost every one failed at the bar and fell apart. Some of the press studs also needed judicious filing to rotate smoothly, but this was 25 years ago. I used a Society version, but added sprung wires to effectively make a Pendlenton version. Vastly superior. Just be warned, the etching is thin on one corner and invariably breaks as you fold it up.
Ordsall Road (BR(E)), Forge Mill Sidings (BR(M)), Kirkcliffe Coking Plant (BR(E)), Swanage (BR (S)) and Heaby (LMS/MR). Acquired Thorneywood (GNR). Still trying to "Keep the Balance".


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