Coach end details

Steve Carter
Posts: 643
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:51 pm

Coach end details

Postby Steve Carter » Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:15 pm

I am looking to add some detail to the end of a SECR non-corridor coach. See photo below.
IMG_20220131_130636.jpg

In particular the rodding details on End G.

Stephen Williams shows a sketch in his 4mm Coach book but I wondered if there are any other suggestions or advice please?

Thanks
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Steve Carter

User avatar
kelly
Posts: 525
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Coach end details

Postby kelly » Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:21 pm

Have you tried the Mike King books/drawings. He has quite a number of scale drawings for various SR and former companies.
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
Photos on Flickr

John Palmer
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:09 pm

Re: Coach end details

Postby John Palmer » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:33 pm

Steve, the plan extract you have posted appears to form part of Mike King's drawing of a steel panelled Diag. 163 Lavatory Third Brake as reproduced at page 99 of his "Southern Coaches Survey", though the particular ends identified in your extract are for the Diag. 52 'long tens', and so I assume it is one of these latter vehicles you are seeking to detail.

I guess from your plan extract that you may already have "Southern Coaches Survey", in which case you will already be aware of the plans and photographs of the Diag. 52 Thirds it contains at pp.102-3. Although all three photographs there show the alarm gear-equipped end of these coaches, you may do better by referring to Michael Welch's "Southern Coaches in Colour" which includes a closer and clearer shot of the end of S2454 at Newport (IoW). Admittedly this isn't a picture of a long ten, but it is a South Eastern non-gangwayed carriage of comparable vintage and includes quite good detail of the fittings in which you are interested, including the alarm gear 'tell tales' and valve box, and what I take to be the electric lighting control handle/box. So far as I can see from photographs, these fittings were pretty much standardised on Southern non-gangwayed stock, as equipment of very similar appearance also appears on the rebuilds on 58' length underframes of LSWR 48'-50' panelled stock.

For another view of this equipment on such a 58' rebuild see https://us.hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/stop-press-sr-58-maunsell-rebuilt-ex-lswr-48-coaches, which includes a good end view of 6404, one of the Diag. 418 Lavatory Composite Brakes.

Edited to add, possibly better still is a shot of the relevant end of a Diag. 52 vehicle at https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/secr/1098_ras_9_94h.jpg - but beware because 'heritage railway' vehicle restorations seem quite frequently to depart from fidelity to the historical article, and the shot to which I have linked appears to have some such subtle differences.
Last edited by John Palmer on Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Steve Carter
Posts: 643
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Coach end details

Postby Steve Carter » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:42 pm

Thank you for the helpful comments so far.

I have the prototype information I need, including the drawings and books mentioned and it is a Dia.52 '100 seater' I wish to add the detail to.

I should have been clearer in my request, I am looking for any tips, suggestions, etc to help me model and add the details to the coach end please.
Steve Carter

John Palmer
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:09 pm

Re: Coach end details

Postby John Palmer » Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:09 pm

Both the Roxey and Branchlines kits for the 58' Rebuilds include etchings for the lighting control gear, so the artwork exists for these items but is not available for separate purchase so far as I am aware. The handles for the control gear would be fiddly to make so, as an alternative, a possible source for these might be the Roxey 4A107 Loop Carriage Door Handles etch.

Perhaps a detailing pack containing an etch of the components required to make up both the alarm equipment and the lighting control gear for Southern non-gangwayed stock might have some sales potential? Other items to enhance the value of such a detailing pack might be sufficient door handles for a single carriage plus the round and rectangular route restriction/dimension castings.

User avatar
Guy Rixon
Posts: 909
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: Coach end details

Postby Guy Rixon » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:13 pm

The electric lights would most likely be fitted out with Stone's equipment, since the SECR used little else (Gould does not note anything special for the 100-seaters). AFAIK, the switch gear was standard Stone's, so any 4mm scale parts representing that system would suit; no need to restrict the search to SECR-related components.

Wizard models sell an etch for LNER fittings on the ends of coaches. That looks like it might be about right.

If you do find an etch, make sure that it is the kind with a single bar across the coach, as in John's photo. The kind with two bars, one above the other, is an SER-designed fitting for gas lights.

On some coaches Ashford fitted a sloping roof over the regulator box, presumably to keep rain off. That is notably not present on the preserved 100-seater and I don't know if it was every fitted to that type.
slip-3rd-brake-3311-end-view.jpg

This photo also shows that the thin vacuum pipe from the train pipe to the drive for the alarm indicator runs behind the light-switch bar, the latter standing out from the body somewhat, and enters the train pipe at the back of the elbow holding the vacuum hose. C.f. the preserved 100-seater where the vacuum pipe runs outside the switch bar.

LNWR coaches with Stone's gear had a prominent fuse-box above the regulator box. This does not seem to be present on any SECR coaches, and I don't know where they kept their fuses, unless the box is hidden under the little roof.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Steve Carter
Posts: 643
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Coach end details

Postby Steve Carter » Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:15 am

Thank you for all the helpful responses.

I went on to the Wizard Models website and ordered the etch Guy suggested. I also ordered lots of other bits that I didn't know I wanted! The danger of shopping online is almost as dangerous as shopping at an exhibition :shock:

I will be following photos and drawings of the coach in pre-preservation life and around my modelling period (1955).

I will post some photos of my efforts but don't hold your breath as the membership renewal period has started and I tend to be a bit, well very, busy at this time.

Thanks you all again for your help and suggestions.

Steve
Steve Carter

Philip Hall
Posts: 1943
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Coach end details

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:15 pm

Just shows how lucky we are to have folk like yourself who give up their modelling time to keep the Society running. (Cross reference to another current topic, ducks and runs for cover!)

Do try and have some modelling time…

Philip


Return to “Coaches and NPCS”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 0 guests