BR Mk1 'CK 2' roof vent layout:warning esoteric

peterbkloss
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:04 pm

BR Mk1 'CK 2' roof vent layout:warning esoteric

Postby peterbkloss » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:14 pm

Dear All

A query to all of you 'out there' on an esoteric point to do with the roof vent layout for one particular build of BR Mk1 CK - the later builds with dual heat, Commonwealth bogies and double glazed windows with external window frames / polished metal glazing bars.

My reason for this query is that I hope to model a realistic looking 'Pines Express' as running in mid 1961 and these new build Mk1s were being filtered in to Mk1 rakes of services running Crewe-Manchester, recently electrified, so from early 1961 this included the 'Pines'. In my quite large collection of S&DJR photo books, photos of the 'Pines' show Commonwealth Bogied Mk1s appearing in photos dated from April 1961, until sometime in 1962 the entire rake is made of these coaches, apart from some 'add-ons'. It seems that the CKs were the first to change over, in that the 'leading' CK in a southbound service becomes a Commonwealth bogied coach sometime in early 1961. (the standard formation appears to be (as on the S&D after reversal in Bath) at the south end a BCK, then CK, the catering cars that were still an ex LMS RS and RCO in 1961, two SKs and a BSK for the 'core' 7 car rake Manchester-Bournemouth)

The complication in modelling these is that that great source of information, the io groups 'BR Mk1 coaches' has in its documents one that lists variations to the Mk1 (Mk_1_details.pdf), and in it the later lots of Mk1 CKs (e.g. lot 30665, M16153-182) built 1961 are listed as having a roof vent layout called 'in line CK2'. As the roof vent layout is very visible in a model viewed from above I'd dearly like to get this detail right!

looking at the photos where sufficient detail of the roof of one of these CKs is shown it appears to me that all the vents are on a line roughly where on an earlier build of CK the line of vents on the compartment side would have been, i.e. the vent line is off centre on the compartment side of the coach. It also appears to me that the total number of vents is the same as the earlier builds with two lines of vents. So basically all the vents that were on the corridor side line of vents have been moved to the line on the compartment side. This is an educated guess looking at a number of photos.

So my question is: do any of you have or have seen a drawing that shows this roof vent layout? I had hoped Parkin 'Mk1 coaches' would show it, or even have a photo, but sadly not ....

Apologies in advance if I've not explained this question well enough

Many thanks .... Peter Kloss

Tony Wilkins
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: BR Mk1 'CK 2' roof vent layout:warning esoteric

Postby Tony Wilkins » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:21 pm

May I just add that anybody who does not have an account can respond via the guest book page.
Regards
Inspiration from the past. Dreams for the future.

peterbkloss
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:04 pm

Re: BR Mk1 'CK 2' roof vent layout:warning esoteric

Postby peterbkloss » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:11 pm

It looks like Member Hardwicke has answered my query in the original sale post

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7456#p83625

with a link to the BlueBell Railway Web site, where he has observed that one of these is preserved!

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/blue ... 16210.html

So, the BB Railway not being too far away I'm going to have to get a look myself and photograph the roof and count those vents .... it seems like, looking at the BB Railway's own corridor side photo that there are not two vents for every compartment after all (my surmise without evidence to the contrary).

Thank you Hardwicke for your research, much appreciated!

peterbkloss
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:04 pm

Re: BR Mk1 'CK 2' roof vent layout:warning esoteric

Postby peterbkloss » Mon May 24, 2021 9:18 pm

Dear all

Replying to myself in a way .... Its not just the Bluebell, in many lockdown sessions with youtube on my big TV, I've noticed this kind of CK in rakes running on the Severn Valley Railway (as SC 16191 in crimson and cream, a livery it can't have worn in 'real life' ie pre-preservation) and W16202 on the NYMR. What is now certain is that all of these only have 14 vents, corresponding to the passenger compartments, and it *looks* like the toilet compartments are without roof vents, but sadly i've not managed to get a broadside view yet, and the perspective views in all the photos/ youtube videos make it very difficult to work out the spacing, except to say it seems very uneven! The few photos in my S&D and WR photo books that show these CKs corroborate, again no broad side views.

Sigh ... I need to get strip organised to the Bluebell .....

Daddyman
Posts: 740
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:09 pm

Re: BR Mk1 'CK 2' roof vent layout:warning esoteric

Postby Daddyman » Tue May 25, 2021 6:48 am

You mention 16202 on the NYMR: I don't know if it's currently in service, but if it is, the webcam at Grosmont may help as it is in an elevated position. It's still not going to give you a broadside but may help:
https://www.nymr.co.uk/grosmont-webcam

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Hardwicke
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: BR Mk1 'CK 2' roof vent layout:warning esoteric

Postby Hardwicke » Wed May 26, 2021 11:58 am

SVR

https://www.camscape.com/webcam/severn- ... y-webcams/

and as I checked, the Port Talbot Railway /GWR saddle tank 813 moved off with a train....
Ordsall Road (BR(E)), Forge Mill Sidings (BR(M)), Kirkcliffe Coking Plant (BR(E)), Swanage (BR (S)) and Heaby (LMS/MR). Acquired Thorneywood (GNR). Still trying to "Keep the Balance".


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