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BR Mk1 Full brake (BG) livery query

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:38 am
by Jeremy Good
There is a photo on the Cornish Railway Society website showing a 2MT Tank hauling a mixed rake of coaches between Wadebridge and Padstow. The photo is undated but the loco was only at Wadebridge between 1961 and 1964.

The train comprises a mix of coaches in a variety of liveries but includes a BR Mk 1 BG. This appears to be a single colour and unlined. I understood that a batch were initially painted in BR Crimson when built and know that later, after 1964, the Southern Region would have repainted some in green. I doubt this has been repainted as the finish is too flat for a newly out-shopped vehicle.

The question is whether this vehicle could still be in unlined crimson livery in that time period and whether anyone has come across any similar vehicles on the North Cornwall or Bodmin & Wadebridge lines at around this time?

Thanks for your help.

Jeremy

Re: BR Mk1 Full brake (BG) livery query

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:10 pm
by Noel
Some BR Mk1 BGs [80617-671 and 80965-1014] were, as you say, painted unlined crimson when built, although the majority were lined crimson and cream. However, from 3/1956 all new construction was officially in lined maroon, apart from that for the SR, in unlined green, and some for the WR in lined chocolate and cream. The standard repaint period was officially 5 years, although it was apparently not uncommon for vehicles in good condition to be revarnished without the colour being changed, although SR ones all went green at the first repainting. The two unlined crimson batches [and any grouping vehicles which had been painted in unlined crimson] were given unlined maroon when repainted. 1964 saw the first blue and grey colour scheme, on the XP64 stock, and also the change of colour on the vehicle ends from black to maroon or green as appropriate [there were no repaints into chocolate and cream]. Given the location and dating, whilst plain crimson cannot be entirely ruled out, the one in the photo is most likely either plain green or plain maroon; as most maroon BGs were lined, green is the more likely, I think.

Re: BR Mk1 Full brake (BG) livery query

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:05 pm
by b├ęcasse
The Southern Region 1956 green, when applied to BR MkI vehicles, had a tendency to go "flat" very quickly. If you see a photo of one looking glossy, it either had been repainted (or revarnished, which was a common SR practice) within the previous few months or had just been through the carriage washer!

Re: BR Mk1 Full brake (BG) livery query

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:19 pm
by PeteT
I cant really add anything useful, but is this the photo in question?:

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.u ... 3_orig.jpg

Re: BR Mk1 Full brake (BG) livery query

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:19 pm
by Noel
The photo's a bit fuzzy, but I think it's 41390, which was certainly in the area, although apparently allocated to Barnstaple 72E/83F [not Wadebridge 72F/84E] 5/61 to 9/64. The coaches are an interesting collection; it looks like three passenger/brake vehicles, one of them non-corridor, plus the BG.

Re: BR Mk1 Full brake (BG) livery query

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:48 pm
by PeteT
41290, but I think that's what you meant Noel - that was at Barnstaple town, while nobody bothered building 41390!

Re: BR Mk1 Full brake (BG) livery query

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:37 pm
by shipbadger
Although Eastleigh built some BGs none were allocated to BR(S) until late 1965. These were dual heated and came from the LMR. They were some of the last repaints into green and therefore the repaint was from maroon to green. Details are to be found in Parkin, BR Mk1 coaches. These vehicles are therefore too late to be in the photo.
Tony Comber

Re: BR Mk1 Full brake (BG) livery query

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:53 pm
by Jeremy Good
PeteT, thanks that is the photo. I need to work out how to get links to work!

Tony, that was the information that lead to the question as it suggested that this was unlikely to be a green vehicle. Certainly from Longworth it seems that it was 1965/66 before the Southern had a BG allocation.

Noel, thanks for your comments as well.

It seems likely to me that this coach is either a crimson vehicle which has slipped through the repaint net or an absolutely filthy maroon coach where the dirt has obliterated the lining. There seem to be photos of CCTs at around the same time in a similar filthy condition.

I suspect the safest route for my BG repaint is to go with maroon as this would have been the most common livery at around that time.

Thanks for your help all.

Jeremy

Re: BR Mk1 Full brake (BG) livery query

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:05 pm
by Noel
PeteT wrote:41290, but I think that's what you meant Noel - that was at Barnstaple town, while nobody bothered building 41390!


Mistyped, Pete, I was in a bit of a hurry at the time [that's my story anyway!]

shipbadger wrote:Although Eastleigh built some BGs none were allocated to BR(S) until late 1965. These were dual heated and came from the LMR. They were some of the last repaints into green and therefore the repaint was from maroon to green. Details are to be found in Parkin, BR Mk1 coaches. These vehicles are therefore too late to be in the photo.


Agreed; I missed that :shock: . I also hadn't looked in the Supplement, which shows, although a couple of numbers have been garbled, that the plain crimson ones were all allocated new to the ER/NER, apart from 80655-71, which went to the WR.