MR 4T Meat Van

John Lewis
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MR 4T Meat Van

Postby John Lewis » Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:35 pm

I have acquired an ancient etched kit of a 4 ton meat van. The kti is by PC Models. MR diagrams, apparently 379 and 396.

The prototype had slatted ventilators - 6 on the sides (including the doors) and 4 on each end.

The kit is unusual in that it seems to have inner sides and ends and outer sides and ends. It seems that you make up a 4 sided box using the inner sides and ends and when you have done this, you have to solder/stick the outer sides and ends to the inner ones. This promises to be fun because the sides have tumblehome below the waist.

Has anyone got one of these kits - have I got this part of the body assembly correct, please? How did you attach the outer sides and ends to the inner ones, please?

John Lewis

PS. I know. I should stick to the GWR! :)

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Guy Rixon
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Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby Guy Rixon » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:07 pm

I've built a D418 van from the same series, with the same construction. Yes, the sides are double-skinned and you have to curve both before fitting the outer sides. When the curves are right, the door hinges folded up from the inner sides align with the slots in the outer side. The final assembly is very rigid.

John Lewis
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Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby John Lewis » Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:08 pm

Thank you very much. That is helpful.

John

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BRUNEL
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Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby BRUNEL » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:48 pm

Sticking with the GWR will not eliminate these problems, John. I'm building an N6 horse box from an old Chowbent kit which, like your MR meat van, has overlays, each covering the whole of an inner side, to which further external detail is soldered.These are aligned in a similar way to Guy's vehicle, ie hinges and the like bent out from the inner sides passing through slots in the outer sides. The only difference is that the N6 has straight sides and ends. Like you, I'm wondering how the outer sides might be most suitably attached to the inner ones. The following seem to be the options:

a) solder around the edges of the outer sides;
b) tin the rear of the outer sides and sweat to the inner sides;
c) drill a few large holes in the inner sides to allow solder to be introduced to the centre of the overlays, plus option 'a';
d) use an adhesive.

My inclination is to use is to use option 'd' as I feel that 'a' will not secure the overlay adequately and with 'b' and 'c' there would be a serious risk of heat distortion. What say you, Guy? Is there any other option?

Derek.

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Will L
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Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby Will L » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:59 pm

BRUNEL wrote:... I'm wondering how the outer sides might be most suitably attached to the inner ones. The following seem to be the options:

a) solder around the edges of the outer sides;
b) tin the rear of the outer sides and sweat to the inner sides;
c) drill a few large holes in the inner sides to allow solder to be introduced to the centre of the overlays, plus option 'a';
d) use an adhesive.


Option (a) works, you will soon learn how to clean off excess solder after the event, it just takes time and patience. Make sure the inner surfaces are good and clean and use a liquid flux which will be drawn between the two pieces by capillary action and will then take the solder in with it. The overlay will lay flat and close to the piece below. The solder may not penetrate very far but that just doesn't mater, as you'll never know/tell the difference.

Option (b) was always the classic way to solder. Personally I don't like it. It is quite hard to keep the tinning layer uniformly thin and if you don't it won't lie flat or close to the piece below unless/until you get the whole thing good and hot. This means that you can an only really do it as the first step in an assembly because any previous joint are going to come undone. Asbestos fingers required.

Option (c) really isn't necessary if you already have done option (a). You could try doing the bulk of the soldering through the holes, as working that way should mean you don't need to do much/any cleaning up, but, if the solder doesn't reach to the outside edge you end up feeling you need to to do option (a) anyway.

Option (d). Given good technique, super glue will do this quite nicely, but in the end solder is a more flexible system and I would always solder in preference. I have one of those very early etched LNWR horse box (prise cattle van?) kits by PC with several layers of overlay, all assembled with super glue a lot of years ago before I learned to solder. I was and still am very happy with the end result.

Good technique means:-
- get the surfaces really clean,
- assemble the pieces so they are a good and close fit
- use a very thin super glue not the jellies they are so fond of these days
- put a blob of glue on a piece of card, and using a piece of wire pick up small quantities and run them into the joint between the pieces. Capillary action will draw it in and it then sets more or less instantly, so long as you don't put on too much. A bit of practice helps.

David Knight
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Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby David Knight » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:42 pm

One of our local club members came up with an interesting way of soldering multiple layers. After tinning and fluxing, he put the whole lot into an electric frying pan* and added heat. IIRC the job came up looking rather good.

* The frying pan in question was no longer required for domestic tasks.

Cheers,

David

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grovenor-2685
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Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:49 pm

The "Hotplate" technique for soldering was espoused by Bernard Weller and appears in the P4 manual, most often in relation to loco frame assembly but applicable to anything you can jig up and solder in one go.
Regards
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

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BRUNEL
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Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby BRUNEL » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:05 pm

David,
The electric frying pan sounds interesting but risky. A further problem for me is that I don't have a redundant frying pan available!! But thanks anyway.

Will,
Thank you for such a full reply. Soldering would be my preferred option too. My inclination now is to use option 'c' because it provides certain fixings away from the etch perimeter. This could be followed up with some option 'a' if that seemed necessary. In this case, with the N6, that will be necessary along the top edge as there are fine ventilation grilles in both inner and outer etches near the top. These will of course be contaminated suitably before soldering. Should this not work out for any reason, I would still have the option of using adhesive - after a lot of cleaning up! Your suggestion about using thin super glue and its method of application sounds good. Thanks.

Derek.

Mike Spence

Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby Mike Spence » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:02 am

Option X = X Factor

RSU from Hobby Holidays

Expensive? Relative.............. I do not have the time and or eysight left to play/fiddle and I am fairly proficient with soldiering irons!

I bought the RSU prior to my last move and have just started using it after a lot of reading and practice, wish I had bought it 15 years ago.....

Best wishes,

Mike Spence

billbedford

Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby billbedford » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:44 am

You can also use solder paint/paste and a hot air gun.

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Andy W
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Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby Andy W » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:34 pm

Agree with Mike. I find my RSU indispensable. I've been "volunteered" to demonstrate its use at Expo EM. Come and have a play with one if you're around.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

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BRUNEL
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Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby BRUNEL » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:16 pm

This could be a further addition to the list of options. Such a possibility hadn't occurred to me. Perhaps that's the nudge to encourage me get give my RSU a dusting-off!

I'm afraid I can't manage Expo EM, Andy, but thanks for the invitation.

Derek.

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Will L
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Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby Will L » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:13 pm

Strangely I have never had an RSU of my own, even though I was there in 1973 when Denis Moore produces a b***** great transformer, good for 2 volts and lots and lots of amps, and proceed to solder track with it on the old Hawker Siddeley MRC layout Havil Junction. But yes solder paint and a RSU is another valid option.

Actually solder paint and a hot iron or a blow torch work to, so perhaps what I really missed was the solder paint option.

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Andy W
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Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby Andy W » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:50 am

I've never got on with solder paint. It just proves we all have our different methods, and as long as they work, that's fine.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: MR 4T Meat Van

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:29 am

Mike Spence wrote:Option X = X Factor

RSU from Hobby Holidays

Expensive? Relative.............. I do not have the time and or eysight left to play/fiddle and I am fairly proficient with soldiering irons!

I bought the RSU prior to my last move and have just started using it after a lot of reading and practice, wish I had bought it 15 years ago.....

Best wishes,

Mike Spence


That'll be the London Road Models RSU, available directly from them.

http://traders.scalefour.org/LondonRoad ... and-tools/


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