ex Airfix B coaches

[steve howe]

I know I ought to know this, but can anyone refresh my memory as to whether the ubiquitous ex Airfix B set, (now Dapol or Hornby....probably) conforms to any official GWR diagram? I seem to have acquired six of trhe blighters by default and would like to upgrade them for P4. However if they are a strange amalgam of diagrams (as is the Auto Trailer) it may not be worth the effort.

Steve

[Tim V]

E140, but extra window on one side. There are other minor problems.

[Russ Elliott]

The Airfix truss rods are moulded flush with the outside face of the solebars, which are I think set far too wide anyway. The headstocks should be straight rather than bow-ended. The door handle recesses are also not quite right on the model, and are too prominent, with the handles sticking out (as they should not do) from the sides. The worst thing about the Airfix is the thick bullseye glazing.

Does Bill do an E140 side-overlay etch, btw? It would solve the major cosmetic deficiency.

Warning: nit-picking mode ahead (from some old notes of mine), but could be useful info if you are prepared to replace the sides with something more adventurous:

The model profile is:

- over rainstrips - model is 36.3mm - should be 8'11 1/8" (35.7mm)

- over waist - model is 37.2 to 38.2mm (!) - should be 9'3" (37mm)

- over handles - model is 38.2mm to 39.2mm - should be 9'3" (37mm)

The Airfix body profile is therefore ideally suited for the very wide Riviera stock, which has rainstrips at 9'2" wide (36.6mm) and the waist at 9'5 3/4" (approx 38mm). 'Normal' and Riviera stock have exactly the same amount of waistline 'bulge', at 1 7/8" (per side) wider than the overall width of the rainstrip gutters.

The best bets for new side overlays are D106 (2-compartment brake 3rd), D105, C59, E137, E138 (brake composite) - all Riviera stock, or the C62 (and C64?) general purpose 3rds, the latter two being 9'3" wide. [The D109 is a non-corridor brake 3rd, and the D111 and D115 are 8'11 1/2" at the gutter rainstrips.] A C60 or C63 is not suitable, being 9'0" wide at the waist and 8'5 1/2" at the gutter - these were 'cross country' stock. The Riviera D104 is also not suitable, at 58'4 1/2" x 8'10 1/4", being built presumably for detachment and use on the branch lines that fed on and off the Riviera route.

A word of warning if considering converting to Riviera stock - pictures of the initial Riviera prototypes, taken on being outshopped from the works, show a single 'combined' door handle and grab handle recess, but most photos of the prototypes in service (in the '50s) show individual recesses for the door handle and grab handle. The Riviera stock was presumably inaugurated on the revamped 4-hour Paddington to Plymouth timings introduced on 8 July 1929, but the Riviera stock lots are given as not having been completed until Christmas of that year, so perhaps only one 'set' (in order: brake 3rd; two 3rds; 3rd dining; kitchen; composite dining; composite; brake 3rd; three brake composites; slip; brake composite) was available for the initial summer service. It is possible that only the first set had the combined recesses, and that the later sets carried the individual recesses for the door/grab handles.

[Dave K]

Steve,

If you want details of how to make the Airfix 'B' set more like the orginal there was an article on detailing the Airfix 'B' set in the September 1980 eddition of Model Railway Constructor , however, if you cannot get hold of a copy most the detail in contained on Tin Venton web site at http://www.tventon.freeserve.co.uk/bset2.htm.

Additionally in the February 2005 edition on theScalefour News is an article by the South London AG of their conversion of an Airfix 'B' set for their St Merryn layout.

[Tim V]

Thanks for the plug Dave.

The Airfix etc. B set can be converted quite satisfactorily, but the proud door handles etc. make poor representations of what should be recesses. Having said that I have several in use

One easy conversion is to replace the rather poor 7' bogies with 9' bogies, I have converted several using bogies from the ex Mainline GW coaches, by just cutting out and turning the existing pivot round to suit the longer bogies. This produces the diagram E145. A lot of mine use the existing truss rods, but with the control box underneath. The door handles are the major problem, I've had a go at modifying the coaches, with varying degrees of success.

[Matthew]

Bringing this back to the top-

What are the biggest deficiencies in the k's B-set coaches? I have a kit of parts arriving sooner or later, which I am hoping to tackle over christmas.

Sources for underframes, bogies or drawings for either to suit the kit would be welcome.

Apologies for asking so many broad questions, I have very little reference material to use.

Matt.

[Russ Elliott]

The K's B-set deficiencies are: thick sides, the roof shape is too round, and window sizes are slightly too large. Bogies are 9' fishbelly. There is no drawing available, but the spacing of the compartments is correct on the kit, and everything is standard.

[Tim V]

The K's set can be modified with flush glazing and new bogies, my old workbench thread on RMweb had some pictures.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic. ... &start=100

[Re6/6]

.................... However if they are a strange amalgam of diagrams (as is the Auto Trailer) it may not be worth the effort.

Steve

What are the issues with the auto trailer?

[Brinkly]

.................... However if they are a strange amalgam of diagrams (as is the Auto Trailer) it may not be worth the effort.

Steve

What are the issues with the auto trailer?

There are two different variations and I think the Airfix kit was a blend of both. There is an old Model Rail John with an article on improving the model, would you like me to send you a copy?

Regards,

Nick

[BryanJohnson]

The Airfix autocoach is covered in another thread - http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=523

Bryan

[martin goodall]

Steve[/quote]

What are the issues with the auto trailer?[/quote]

The Airfix/Hornby Autotrailer is a mix-and-match (mix-up) between Diagrams A28 and A30.

Pressure of time prevents my itemising all the points, but the A28 had recessed windows, whereas A30 was flush glazed, the driver's doors were flush in the A28 but recessed in the A30, they had different bogies (I believe the A28 had 7'0" Collett plate bogies), and there were differences in the pattern of roof ribs. There were no doubt other points, but I have forgotten the details.

I have a second-hand Mainline model (from the same tooling), which has quite reasonable flush glazing - not as good as modern Bachmann models, but definitely better than the original Airfix version. This most closely resembles Diagram A30, but carries an A28 number (178).

[Matthew]

Thanks all for your help and contributions. Looks like I'll be doing some more shopping before settling down for a festive bodging session.

Matt.

[TEZBEDZ]

I have just acquired a pair of the 2008 Hornby GWR B Set, I need to convert them to E147 apart from the extra Guards Window is there anything else I should consider working on.

I do need to write Llanfyllin, Llanymynech and Oswestry No. 1 on the outside ends and do not know how to do that either.

[chrisf]

The bodyside contour of the E147 is significantly different to that of the E140 as modelled by Airfix and successors! I fear you may have been misled by an inaccurate caption in Russell. E140s have bow ends, E147s have flat ends. E147s are virtually vertical above the waist, E140s curve inwards and are significantly wider with a recessed guard's door.

Chris

[TEZBEDZ]

Thanks Chris, I had the same feeling, but, as yet I have not actually seen the model, well aprt from a photo.

I feared it was going to be major surgery. I should be able to convert the bow ends to flat ends easy enough. I am not after exact scale but a good representation when looked at from a couple of feet so a mm or two difference in length or width is not a problem

[Tim V]

I would suggest the Hornby coach is too significantly different to make it into an E147.

Better off not converting it and putting time into the Comet kit.

[TEZBEDZ]

Hi Tim,

That is bad news, I've got these two for a few quid each whereas the Comet E147 will cost £41 each plus wheels.

oh well I think the interim solution is to convert Hornby to P4 with perhaps new bogies and save up for the real thing.

Oh hum back to the scenery anyway

[Tim V]

Right I had a look to see if a quick and dirty conversion was possible.

Using the Comet sides and ends and then the Hornby B set floor, seats and roof.
Here is a Comet E147 alongside an Airfix - the current Hornby E140.

IMG_1006.JPG

The E147 is shorter, so that's good news.
There aren't quite enough seats - 6 compartments as opposed to the 7 in the E147, but a bit of plasticard will soon fix that..
The bogies are different, a 9' bogie is available as a spare from Bachman etc, it may still be wrong, but it is a quick and dirty!
I measured the roof as 1mm too wide, so you may have to buy the Comet roof.

Don't forget that the major time in building a coach is the door furniture, but at least that won't be wasted.

[TEZBEDZ]

Thanks Tim.

I am going to retain the Hornby B Set, which I can run on the track I have built so far, (8ft of a 16ft layout) basically the platform, Station and Goods Shed. I am in the process of sorting the scenery out, platform built, Station and Signal Box built. Now need to ballast, paint sleepers and rail. So no panic for a pair of E147. I can practice my soldering and kit building on the wagon kits I have and then build a couple of coaches next year.

Thanks for all the help the above photo is an amazing comparison and I think I would be better building new and flogging these two on E Bay. Only problem is I could really do with 3 sets........