NER Coaches and NPCS

DougN
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NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:13 am

Well I can see that I will end up with a number of topics under different subjects (rather than everything going under the Q6 Thread)

Here is the continuing NER coachs that I have been working on. Recently I have tried to paint it in a appropriate Brown. (this is the first time that I have used the air brush. I think my problem has been not getting enough air through the brush due to a leaking hose to compressor joint!)
DSC_0195.JPG


The photo is a comparrison to the LNER teak from Hornby. I have also comparied it to the Thompson from Bachmann shows that colour is a bit too "tan" So the next coat will need to be darked down a lot.

The one thing I am finding is the D&S coaches can be handed which I find difficult to pick BEFORE assembly. So keep an eye out if you are putting some together!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

DougN
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:36 am

Well another weekend and another post from me. I was not happy with the colour of the coach above so it has been repainted into Humbrol 186 Brown which may be a bit dark. I have compared it to the LNEr brown of the Thomson steel coahes which is a mid point between the 2 browns! The discussion ensued yesterday at the Melbourne area group (unofficial ;) ) meeting as to whether this was the right brown and the consenus was "who knows?" So I will stick with this colour. I did find an interesting conversation on paints as my thought was the colour had changed as the paint had dried/cured, As I had the clerestory painted a few days after the main body of the coah and it wasn't exactly a match. (as the 2 are broken by the roof I don't think this really matters!) But I had also noticed that the colour had "changed" in the interveaning few days to be slightly lighter. So it is down to the chemistry of the paint and oxidisation of the pigment may be a contributing factor ( I am not a chemist but as a professional builder I have noted this previously on walls when repainted/ patched as defects to new buildings) Some one with more knowledge on these things may wish to chime in.

Now I am up to the next coach body to be painted using my method of cleaning with "eessteel stainless and copper cleaner paste" I know it is not the same chemical make up as the "shiny sinks" in the UK. there is a different active ingrediant but as the active one in the powder/paste is Sulphamic acid at 10% seems to work well for me. The surface does seem to go a cloudy/ matte colour and turns solder black but the surface is as clean as can be. Only rubber gloves from this point to touch a surface! then prime with an automotive then air brushed top colour!
DSC_0220.JPG

DSC_0221.JPG

I must admit that the next coach is going to look extremely similar as it is exactly the same diagram! ;)

All the best
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

DougN
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:55 am

Well as it has been 2 weeks every body has probably thought that work had got me again! :shock: I have actually been building and painting some of the kits. I am not quick at building them, though I did all the handles and grabs in under 2 hrs on the all third where it took me 2 hours to do each side on the brakes!
DSC_0252.JPG


Now I am working on the all third which has had its turn though the painting preparation that I have described previously. Now in it primer:
DSC_0254.JPG


I have a little problem with the other coaches from the all third on as the kits are not set up for compemsation/ springing. So I have built up a Masokits sprung universal bogie. I am not sure that I really should go down this path..... but they seem to build up OK but the internal bearings are stiff to say the least. Then there is the problem of either scratch building the side frames or using the ones from the kits. (I have 4 more kits to do this way!) Does any one have experience with using these older sprung units?
DSC_0253.JPG

The photo is of the unbuild D&S version and a built up Masokits bogie.
Doug
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Will L
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby Will L » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:08 am

Doug

As Danny's bogie kits evolved they got simpler.

He started out with the Scalefour design with internal beams, two on one bogie one on the other. These were what was originally distributed with the NER kits your building. They worked to start with but put up a fair bit of rolling resistance. Then the beams would bend about the central pivot hole which wasn't good.

The variety you illustrate first appeared on the GER coaches, and I presume were retrofitted to the NER stock. They do ran a bit stiff because of the inside bearing at one end of each bogie.

The last design he produced (or more accurately the last design I am aware off) dispensed with three point suspension internal to the bogie altogether, as, frankly, short wheelbase bogies work OK without it. That's just so long as the three point suspension between the bogies and the coach designed into the bogie is maintained.

So you can assemble the ones illustrated by omitting the rocking axle unit and running both axles in fixed pinpoints in the bogie frame. That's the easiest answer.

If of course you have been bitten by the springing bug....


Will

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grovenor-2685
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:03 pm

If of course you have been bitten by the springing bug....
Those inside frame bogies are OK if you only want very short trains, otherwise Masokits do an outside frame version as does Bill Bedford (Now via Eileens). IMHO the BB version is easier to build and a bit narrower. The Masokits one can push the cosmetic frames out to an excessive width if not careful. I'd be inclined to go with Will and start by building them rigid, if they stay on the track you are in business, if not look at springing with outside bearings.
Regards
Keith

DougN
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:16 pm

Thanks Will and Keith, I will build up a pair and see how they go. As the trains I am thinking of running is a maximum of 4 coaches I think that the friction might be OK but as you say reduce it as much as possible. AS the little loco that I will be using to pull them will be either a N9 (0-6-2) or a G5 (0-4-4) I hope they have to adhesion that is required. I have to fit some couplings and head around to one of the local guys embryoinc P4 layout that has a decent run!
Doug
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DougN
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:20 am

Well it has been a while since I posted a photo of the progress (read lack there of but there has been some :) ) here are the 3 coaches with a loco that I built.... ummmm 8 to 11 years ago
I was playing around with the appeture setting to get a better photo Which I think I may have achieved though more playing may be required. I have fitted a couple of the bogies with Alex Jackson couplings which if I have enough success with I will use. I need to get the roofs transfers and glazing in but I am still awaiting for a delivery of coach seating from the UK before continuing further.
DSC_0238.JPG


Oh the layout is one that was built by a local member in the late '80's which I remembered I had in the attic. So out it came as a back drop to the coach photo!
(edited for better photo this time using the timer for the shutter, I had moved the camera the first time and the photo blured!)
Doug
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DougN
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:33 am

Well I hadn't realised that I had started this thread so long ago. Any how, last weekend at the local exhibition I purchased a "Hold and Fold" what better way to give it a try out on Sunday. It is the 5" version I purchased So I thought to my self why not give it a try out on a coach. So as I had purchased a D&S Pigeon van Dia 120 from a local member I thought that I would give it a try out so out came the soldering iron, the hold and fold and the end result was the following.
DSC_0417.JPG

DSC_0418.JPG

the detailing and castings haven't been added. I must admit etched kits for me have become addictive... I guess there are worse addictions out there.... I still have a number of kits squirreled away... here in Australia I tend to pick them up when I see them. Some are more expensive than the UK but others can be a lot cheaper, though they are rare beasty's here.
Doug
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Flymo748
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby Flymo748 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:03 am

DougN wrote:Well I hadn't realised that I had started this thread so long ago. Any how, last weekend at the local exhibition I purchased a "Hold and Fold" what better way to give it a try out on Sunday. It is the 5" version I purchased So I thought to my self why not give it a try out on a coach. So as I had purchased a D&S Pigeon van Dia 120 from a local member I thought that I would give it a try out so out came the soldering iron, the hold and fold and the end result was the following.


And ??? :-)

For those that haven't used one before (not me, I also have the 5" version) what did you think of it? And was it worth the not inconsiderable investment?

Flymo, soliciting opinions since 1989
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DougN
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:04 am

Well put it this way I think it was worth the $aud96 I think it is worth the money if you have and interest in building etched brass kits. If that is your interest yes it is worth the money as they are easier to use than planed bending bars. I do like the way they are sprung apart and you can always turn the tool around. I found a new use in holding the tabs of the foot steps in the tool while soldering the overlay and footboard together. All square and flat. Is it a tool that I could live with out... Probably but like the resistance soldering unit, and vice, the reamers there is other ways to do the same thing.... Bit like my other luxury the avonside chassis2ed they will make modelling quicker and a higher quality.

So far as I have only scratched the surface of what it can do it is getting a 7 out of 10

On the other hand the Stonyfell Langhorn creek Sav Cab is getting a 9/10 though it may only be available here in aus. :D
Doug
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Flymo748
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby Flymo748 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:49 pm

DougN wrote:On the other hand the Stonyfell Langhorn creek Sav Cab is getting a 9/10 though it may only be available here in aus. :D


Looking at the web reviews, it's definitely cropped up here from time to time...

" Stonyfell Metala Shiraz/Cabernet Sauvignon pounds 6.99, Safeway. Australia still makes the best-value Shiraz-based wines, and this Langhorne Creek red is typical. A traditional Aussie Shiraz blend from Saltram Estates, it has peppery aromas and a blackberry fruit richness streaked with Mediterranean-like herbal notes of mint and thyme."

I'll keep an eye open for it...

The boyfriend of a chap that worked for me was a sommelier in one of Sydney's top restaurants, so I have a few good inside tips. My current favourites are "Ladies Who Shoot Their Lunch", both reds and whites. http://fowleswine.com/

Enjoy!
Flymo
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DougN
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:36 pm

Well my all time favourite was white box cab merlot for every day drinking...special occasions call out Annie's lane, but the number one for me has always been Abbots prayer by henschke. Then we start getting into some seriously expensive wines... A memorable one was penfolds grange 1989 last Christmas. Where did this all come from... Well my family did own a grog shop years ago and dad has always had a thing for good wines which rubbed off on me! One of the down sides here in Australia we have a glut of really good wines over the last few years but i think the industry has sorted the glut.... Unfortunately for the drinker... So the prices are starting to rise again.

Flymo, the wine is a different version to the one you found as it was about 17aud.... Then again as my mother says.... Life is too short for bad wines or bad coffee.... May that is why she drops in about afternoon tea time for a coffee every so often....
Doug
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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:49 am

Doug,

now we can fully understand your signature line.

Those that enjoy wine and the membership of a worthwhile and friendly society that does a lot for its members might consider joining the Wine Society http://www.thewinesociety.com/

I can recommend it with the same enthusiasm I would the S4Society, if not more.

Jol

DougN
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:00 am

Well Jol, you might be right there. But as I try to limit the intake of wine to a glass a day max. I don't think it would be worth joining a club to enjoy what I do with friends and family. Any how this should be back to modelling... I should ask if any one has the instructions for the kit as it is one of the things that wasn't in the box!
Doug
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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:06 pm

DougN wrote:Well Jol, you might be right there. But as I try to limit the intake of wine to a glass a day max. I don't think it would be worth joining a club to enjoy what I do with friends and family.


Doug,

I don't think the description "club" is appropriate, any more than it is for the S4Soc. I think the nearest we get to a club is the area groups.

It's an interesting topic, but perhaps not one to discuss here.

On the subject of NER coaches, I want some for London Road to go with a Class G 4-4-0 to create an excursion train from foreign parts. I've cheated and am having some built by a friend who has experience and knowledge of such things, from some D&S clerestory kits I got from Danny about a year ago.

Jol

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Flymo748
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:35 pm

Jol Wilkinson wrote:Those that enjoy wine and the membership of a worthwhile and friendly society that does a lot for its members might consider joining the Wine Society http://www.thewinesociety.com/

I can recommend it with the same enthusiasm I would the S4Society, if not more.


Hmmm... I've just had a look at that, and this line sold it to me: "The Wine Society is owned by its members and exists exclusively for their benefit. Join The Society today for a lifetime of good wine."

As soon as I'm feeling a bit more flush in the liquid department (we _have_ just come back from France...) then I'll be signing up. I'd heard of TWS before, but never investigated it. A personal recommendation is enough to tip me over the edge!

Cheers!
Flymo (just opened a bottle of Argentinian 2009 Gran Merlot...)
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DougN
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:17 pm

Jol, you make a good point that at times well have to think ahead of what we want, for your excursion train. I would love to get a all third clerestory , the hard thing is getting in touch with Danny and then paying him... The next question is what else needs to go into that order.... I was very fortunate to purchase a reasonable number of coaches at a reasonable price. Though the problem now is to create the train "sets" for the future layout. The D&S range was so well respected when Danny was trading at full steam no doubt a lot of modellers thought that it would always be easy to get hold of the interesting things. Now that it is more challenging this includs ebay, to make a representative train takes years of searching or a long wait for Danny to gain the orders to do another run.

Oh I should add that I wish Danny well in all this and it is in no way a criticism just an observation.

Without D&S, Mousa, comet models where would we be for the interesting coaches?
Doug
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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:35 am

Doug,

just those three suppliers? What about Roxey, 247 Developments, Wizard, 5&9, 5222, Branchlines, Caley Coaches, David Geen, Southwark Bridge and, I nearly forgot, London Road Models. There are others too, but I ran out of time looking at the CLAG suppliers text list.

With such a choice of coach kits it makes you wonder why there are so few models of carriage sheds, yet so many loco sheds :)

Jol

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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby billbedford » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:24 am

Those coaches look OK, but the colour they are painted looks awful. LNER coach brown was meant to match varnished teak, so it was a much brighter, more yellow/orange colour with less white in it than you have. Also the NER & LNER painted the solebars to match the body colour, and while the sole bats would have been cleaned less often than the coach sides there is a lot of difference between muck over brown and gloss black.
Bill Bedford
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DougN
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:35 am

Ok, we'll appologies are due to all the missing coach kit manufacturers, Jol I was not trying to be critical just stating that buy now or when you can afford too as in the future they may not be around.

Thanks Bill, can you recommend a colour from humbrol or any other manufacturer? It is the one thing I have yet to get the hang of.... Colour... Sounds strange but it is a skill that some have and others don't. I really can't match colour but I may be able if you have a decent photo. Also it is one thing here in Melbourne is we have a very white clear light compared to the UK. I find the light is a bit more yellow than here. Another problem is colour memory is highly variable along with photo film can have a hue depending on heap of things. So if you could suggest a photo on line or a book (slightly harder to come by) I would appreciate it.
Doug
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Alan Turner
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby Alan Turner » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:35 am


DougN
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:55 am

Thanks Alan, from what I had read the comments were as the coaches were NER to re brand them all as LNER they were painted brown. Rather than NER maroon or just a a vinyl the way they do now. The fake teak that was on Thomson/Greeley steel coaches was rather skilfully applied, from what I read the basic brown on the almost life expired per group coaches was very basic. Until some one mentions other wise they probably won't be changed in the near future.
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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:56 am

DougN wrote:Ok, we'll appologies are due to all the missing coach kit manufacturers, Jol I was not trying to be critical just stating that buy now or when you can afford too as in the future they may not be around.


Doug,

I was just pointing out how well off we are for coach kit suppliers.

You may well be right in suggesting that you should buy them when you can. Not only do suppliers retire, but etchers have been known to lose tooling. :(

Jol

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Will L
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby Will L » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:26 pm

DougN wrote:... from what I read the basic brown on the almost life expired per group coaches was very basic...


..and I don't think they tried very hard on the under frames either. Precision Paints do a Teak Colour paint which is a reasonable starting point but I personally find it a bit light and I add black to darken it down a bit, particularly on the frames. Getting a can in Aus might be a problem I suppose.

Will

DougN
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Re: NER Coaches and NPCS

Postby DougN » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:29 pm

Well Will, I do have a can hidden in the back of the paint draw. The is a shop that was a bit of a jumble sale that did have a few tins of precision. The shop has since moved and I have not been to the new store. When I did last go there they were down to half a dozen tins of strange colours ie pre grouping. Once we were able to get the paints from the UK but with the changes in Royal Mail I suspect it could be quite difficult.

If I have some time in the next few days I will see if the tin is still alive then look at pulling out the air brush this week end. But I beleive our weather is to close in again for the weekend... We are having a week of mid 20's and fine weather and for the start of spring this is very warm but enjoyable. :D
Doug
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