Underframe detail for GWR Dean clerestory Coach

[Bruce Boldner]

This is to ask if anyone could provide a photo or diagram, or advise where I might view the details of the underframe of a GWR Dean 46' 6" clerestory coach.
I wish to detail a rake of the early Triang GWR clerestories and although I can find any number of photos of superb models of these coaches on the internet, none show the underframe detail, ie gas cylinders, vacuum brake cylinders, cranks and brake rodding, V hangers, truss rods, steps, etc.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Bruce Boldner.

[HowardGWR]

Could this article referenced here
http://www.penrhos.me.uk/LewisClassification.htm
lead you to something useful (perhaps someone has the MRC annual for 1981 from which you may get a scan). I presume you are aware of the Russell book Volume 1 which is expensive to acquire being somewhat rare plus I think John Lewis has published books for Wild Swan but I can't remember what period he covers.

Look up these references on the web and look at UK Used books to see what's available. I also presume you are aware that a razor saw is needed to turn these coaches into prototypes by 'cutting and pasting', lots of articles on doing that. Regards, Howard

[Bruce Boldner]

Hello Howard,
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately the site you referred me to doesn't appear to have any information on underframe details.
I have Jim Russell's Volumes on GWR coaches and on page 72 of volume 0ne , diagram 53 illustrates underframe brake detail, although not completely when compared with what one can see of the underframe detail in Figure 82 above.
A friend has loaned me John Lewis' book of GWR coach drawings. However the period covered is of those coaches constructed from the 19th century onwards.
What would be most helpful would be if someone who has comprehensively detailed the underside of a model of a Dean clerestory, would upend it, photpgraph the underside and post it on this forum.
Failing that, I may have to purchase a kit of one of these coaches which will hopefully include underside fittings and construction notes. Perhaps a coach from IKD Models? Or Slaters?
Can you recommend either?
Regards,
Bruce.

[HowardGWR]

However the period covered is of those coaches constructed from the 19th century onwards.

Hmm! I don't know any from the 18th century!! I assume John's book is 20th onwards.

Seriously, I am list owner of the new GWSG Yahoo Group which is for GWSG Members only. I will post your query on there and report back. I suspect this is of general interest otherwise I would reply off list. I am interested too. Regards, Howard

[HowardGWR]

Here we are Bruce and a super fast reply from a super fellow.

If you use RC1 Dia 53 as the basic guide to a clerestory coach underframe
fittings, you can get further details of the brake gear as applied to the bogies
from the drawings later in the volume - the Dean 6ft 4in bogie is on Pg 89; the
8ft 6in one is on Pg 93 and the 10ft one is on Pg 95, together with some photos
on that page and Pg 94.

There are two drawings showing more details of underframes on Pgs. 96 and 97
(Diags 56 - 58).

One part missing from these drawings is the screw handbrake - see Fig 197. This
one on a coach with an end guard's compartment, possibly a slip coach. If the
guard's compartment is not right at the end of the coach, then the handbrake
would still be in it, nearer the coach centre.

The NRM list has several clerestory coach underframe drawings, copies can be
obtained via the Search Engine.

IKB Models do (did) a clerestory non-corridor composite, their models are
usually well detailed, although may be most suitable for 18.84 mm track (P4).

Perhaps someone else would be better able to comment on Slaters 4mm model
clerestory coaches - and Blacksmith's.

I hope this is of some help.
John

I will post on any further replies I get. Meanwhile if anyone wants to join GWSG for benefits like these, just email me.
Regards, Howard

[Bruce Boldner]

Hello again Howard,

Please convey my thanks to John for his very helpful and detailed response to my query. And all that information was in a volume already in my possession! How embarassing!
And, er, yes, you were correct when you surmised that I meant to say that John Lewis' book referred to those coaches built from the 20th century onwards, NOT the 19th!
Thank you very much for your prompt and helpful assistance.

Best wishes,

Bruce.

[martin goodall]

One point which a GWR modeller should perhaps note is that although the GWR did produce some coaches to this length, the old Tri-ang models did not represent any of those designs (!)

The models were produced at a time when the Margate drawing office seemed to think that they had to re-design everything from scratch in order to turn it into an RTR model.

This hasn't stopped lots of GWR modellers (including me) from 'converting' these models in various ways. The 'Compo' [which wasn't] is really of no use at all, although I have produced an admittedly fictitious model from it, but the Brake Third can be adapted in various ways. The third class compartments are about right, and the brake end can also be used in various ways.

The bolection mouldings are not correctly represented ( - compare the Ratio and Slater's mouldings), but this can be disguised when they are painted 'mahogany' colour. The clerestoreys also look slightly wrong, but micro-strip added along the top of the clerestorey deck improves their appearance. It might be best to fill in the windows on the clerestorey deck altogether, as these were sheeted over in later years.

As a starting point for conversions, the Ratio and Slater's mouldings are a better bet, but if you have some old Tri-ang clerestorey bodies in stock, and are prepared to compromise on scale accuracy, then they can be pressed into service.

I didn't bother with new underframes on these models. I just fitted Dean 6' 4" bogies - available from several sources (etched or cast).