Weight for a coach kit.

[simonmoore]

Hi guy's just a quickie really, I'm currently building a Ian Kirk Gresley parcels coach & I'm getting close to cementing the roof to the body but i first want to put in some weight. Since I'm relatively new to P4 I'm not sure on how much weight to put in the coach to keep it on the track. can anyone shed any light on how much to use? My favorite method so far is to use some of the coppers in the copper jar because i have a large amount of them for starters & it seems to be the only metal i have laying around the house.

Cheers

Simon.

[martin goodall]

Opinions have varied in the past as to the amount of weight needed in vehicles, but there seems to be a growing consensus that something between 20g and 25g per axle is right for 4-wheel and 6-wheel vehicles, unless (in the case of a 4-wheel wagon) the vehicle is likely to run with/between rather heavier whitemetal wagons, in which case 30g to 35g per axle seems to be recommended. Thus a 4-wheel wagon would weigh a total of 40g to 50g (or 60g to 70g if running with whitemetal vehicles). A 6-wheel vehicle would weigh in at between 60g and 75g (and probably doesn't need any extra weight to cater for being mixed in with whitemetal stock). I have successfully run some wagons on my layout for more than 30 years which weigh less than 40g in total.

As regards bogie vehicles, I cannot recall having seen a recommeded weight, so out of curisority I have just checked a couple of converted RTR coaches that run reliably on my layout, and to which I have added no extra weight. Rather to my surprise, they weigh in at 130g and 150g respectively. I suspect that these vehicles need not be as heavy as this, but the weight (which I believe is broadly similar for all my bogie stock) does not seem to cause any haulage problems for rakes of up to four vehicles. In fact, I have occasionally shunted six or more bogie vehciles without any apprent distress being shown by the locomotive. If one were to work on 30g per axle, this would give 120g all up weight for a bogie vehicle, whch should be more than sufficient. You might get away with only 100g, which brings us back to the 25g per axle quoted for a 4-wheel wagon.

[Mark Tatlow]

I am an ounce an axle type of guy; so that is pretty close to Martin.

I would suggest keeping it consistant across all vehicles if you can.

If you are using sprung vehicles, you need to pitch the strength of the spring with your selected weight carefully. The springs need to be consistantly sprung (ie ride height) and part sprung to work properly.

[Philip Hall]

I go for about 160g for a carriage; this was almost the weight of some Hornby Pullmans I got a while ago and they ran very well. I used this weight when putting together a set of Kirk Maunsells (before the Hornby ones arrived) and found that with sprung gangways (foam and styrene David Jenkinson style) this weight was needed to keep the wheels on the deck against the movement of the carriage body. I've found that if the train moves as one unit, either with sprung gangways, or the Hornby sprung close couplings holding them together, then once it's on the move, it rolls very well so the weight of the train is not such an issue.

Philip

[Will L]

... then once it's on the move, it rolls very well so the weight of the train is not such an issue.

Unless you have deliberate gradients of course, or when you've been allocated that spot at the exhibition which has a significant slope on the floor!

Will

[grovenor-2685]

Most of my fleet are in the range from 120 g - 160 g. I do have one which happens to be an Ian Kirk Gresley which weighs in at 98 g which is Ok but does have a tendency to derail on occasion if the train gets a bit of rough treatment. I have it in mind for a bit more weight but I made the mistake of glueing on the roof as you are suggesting so making the job difficult and it has not yet been done. Try and fit your roof in a removable fashion, you can then easily adjust the weight later should you need to. Generally proper touching gangways, larger trains, gradients all seem to need a bit more weight to work well
Regards
Keith
NB, Climbing 1:25 grade with 14 on can be seen here, the third loco was not needed, two of the Bo-Bos could manage, or the Hornby class 50 on its own.

[Andy W]

That's an impressive sight Keith.

I'd also agree with Keith that removable roofs are preferable.

[John Fitton]

Being on this side of the Atlantic I subscribe to the NMRA standard for bogie vehicles of 1 ounce plus half an ounce per inch of vehicle length. A Mk 1 car comes out at 6 1/4 ounces, or 177 grams. I weight my locos with as much lead as I can cram in. Since my layout is under construction, and only the flat part is made, I can't comment on gradient performance. I will be in trouble if multiple heading is required on my proposed 1 in 30 grades.

All passenger cars have compensated bogies with P4 wheels of course.

Re Keith's comment of interaction between cars with gangways: interaction with buffers, couplers also should be checked, and even between two bogies on one vehicle, to ensure wheels are not lifted.

John Fitton

[grovenor-2685]

I will be in trouble if multiple heading is required on my proposed 1 in 30 grades.

How many coaches do you want to pull with what sort of loco? My grades are mostly a bit steeper but I should be able to give you a bit of an idea.
Keith

[John Fitton]

Hello Keith,

The longest modern train is 12 cars with a class 86. Should be able to weght the loco in excess of 600 grams.

Real challenge will be the euston glasgow night sleeper of the 1950's which is still in the dream state really, pardon the pun. duchess with 15 on. Plan A is to have dual motors - one in loco plus tender drive.

John