LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

RAO
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Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:49 pm

LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

Postby RAO » Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:54 pm

Can anyone point me in the direction of who produces a R-T-R or kit of a LNER Thompson 5 compartment Brake Third?
If not do I need to buy an Hornby R4653 4 compartment Brake Third & R4652 Third and cut and carve!!!!
Has anyone attempted this?
Thanks for your help.

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PeteT
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Re: LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

Postby PeteT » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:53 pm

Bill Bedford, presuming you mean this one?

20200209_165223.jpg

RAO
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Re: LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

Postby RAO » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:42 pm

Certainly do. Will look it up.
But if its just the sides do I bond it onto a Hornby Thompson 3rd?

MarcusB
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Re: LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

Postby MarcusB » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:09 pm

Noooo!

It’s a standard 51’ vehicle, so if your soldering skills are up to it (if not, practice first; it takes some practice but suddenly becomes second nature), use the MJT floorpan and all the rest of the bits to build out what will become a far better effort than Hornby’s.

Bill’s sides are a pleasure to use, so if you have any questions (how to tackle door hinges might come to mind; been there, done that) feel free to ask.

If you fluff it at any point, go back by undoing the mess, get replacement parts if needed and press on. Cutting and shutting doesn’t allow for that!

Best,
Marcus

RAO
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Re: LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

Postby RAO » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:08 pm

Thank you for this information.

I think I have 3 routes to go:-

A. Cut a Hornby R4576Thompson 3rd [5 Compartments] & a Hornby R4577 Brake 3rd [rear brake compartment] and fix together.

or

B. Bill Bedford BCK0186S [5 compartment brake 3rd sides] & Hornby R4577 4 compartment Brake 3rd, bond on the sides and then form additional seats in new 5th compartment.

or

C. Bill Bedford BCK01865S sides and as advised a MJT 2850 LNER 51' floor pan + other items.

Looking at the above alternatives, I think maybe option B although C is looking very interesting!!!

Any further comments would be welcombe before I dive in.

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Noel
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Re: LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

Postby Noel » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:37 pm

One question you haven't commented on is "How accurate is the Hornby vehicle dimensionally?" [No I don't know the answer.] Some r-t-r is surprisingly [to me, anyway] good in this respect; in other cases manufacturing compromises or plain bad design produce poor results. I use r-t-r wagons sometimes, but was caught out by the Bachmann GWR Mogo. It uses the standard VB chassis, which I would probably have replaced, but because of the way they designed the body it's 2.5mm too long. This doesn't sound like much, but put it in a rake of wagons of the right length for 17' 6" oh vehicles [which the Mogo is] it is visibly wrong. I don't know why, but r-t-r manufacturers can manage to produce two wagons more or less simultaneously, with one more or less right and one definitely not. If you accept compromises [a personal choice and nothing wrong with it] you do have to consider what else you intend to do, as the compromise may be OK on its own, but jar alongside other vehicles.
Regards
Noel

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PeteT
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Re: LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

Postby PeteT » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:56 pm

I was looking through the MRJ index for something unrelated, but noticed that MRJ64 has an article on building a MJT 51' LNER suburban - which may be worth reading to help decide whether C is for you (if you can find a copy).

One issue with RTR conversions is that most use the glasing as the body fixing, so you need to fabricate a new method - it sounds like a quick way but from what I can see often mas more issues that building kits (& that is without potential dimensional pitfalls as Noel mentioned).

Cheers,
Pete

davebradwell
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Re: LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

Postby davebradwell » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:29 pm

A friend has done a version of B a couple of times with good results to produce BR non-corridor lav/3rd and lav/compo. The idea probably came from Tony Wright's conversions of Hornby corridor stock. He used an appropriate donor coach but cut the sides off inside the ends, below the gutter and above the floor leaving ends and floor full width but which were then reduced by 0.3 each side to allow for the thickness of the sides. Strips were stuck inside the gutter area to support the sides - attachment here was the tricky bit and you will need to solder a flange along the top of the sides to keep them straight and give some gluing area - this might be difficult looking at the top of Bill's sides in the van area. He might have soldered some cross pieces here for extra strength. Anyway a bit vague because the construction of the donor will be totally different but you get the idea and a much better result than just sticking the sides on the outside.

Mind, you still have to form the turnunder without getting a kink at the bottom of the windows. To check LNER coach profile put a rule across the straight upper section with the windows and the bottom edge should be curved in by 1.3mm (scale 4"). From real drawings.

After all that you can refer to MRJ 200 and re-mount your bogies to give some springing.

DaveB

billbedford
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Re: LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

Postby billbedford » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:34 am

Thompson non-corridor stock were 52ft4in over headstocks and had 36' bogie centres so a Gresley 51ft underframe will need a lot of fettling to get it to work.

I suggest the easiest way of making a d.361 is to remove the sides from any Hornby Thompson non-corridor and use the BCK0186S sides as suggested by Dave Bradwell. Using a full third will give all the seats needed. (This is assuming that the Hornby models are accurate for length.)

These sides are 0.25mm thick and have relief etching on the insides so the turnunder forms naturally.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

davebradwell
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Re: LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

Postby davebradwell » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:48 pm

After braving Dennis I can confirm that the Hornby Thompsons are the scale length so method described should work well, although I am no coach builder. Hornby made a very good job of their LNER suburbans after delivering their truly awful Gresley corridor stock and I believe they were force-fed some proper original drgs with dimensions on.

DaveB

RAO
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Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:49 pm

Re: LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

Postby RAO » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:28 pm

Thanks for all this advice.

I think I will go for option 'B' of my previous posting. I think that I will use the Hornby R4577 4 compartment brake 3rd as opposed to Hornby R4576 full 3rd, as the brake end has viewing windows which I think would be much harder to reproduce that an extra set of seats for the 5th compartment.

So here goes....

Watch this space!!!

MarcusB
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Re: LNER Thompson 5 compartment brake third

Postby MarcusB » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:28 pm

Bill’s right about the length (of course he is, it’s Bill. He knows his stuff); I was too keen to ‘plug’ Mike Trice’s ‘bits’ and over looked the Comet range from Wizard models.

So, for anyone contemplating option ‘C’ the right underframe (UE3) and Thompson ends are available from Wizard along with an alternative source of LNER coach bits. I use both according to need (a lot of Bill’s sides still waiting to be built along with MJT and Kemilway!).


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