Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Simon Moore
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Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby Simon Moore » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:46 pm

I have about 6 slaters NE hopper kits that i would like to build but I'm not sure what my best option is for a w iron or sprung unit for P4

Can anyone suggest the best route ? I was thinking of just compensating them but i cannot see a w iron for a ne prototype.

Any suggestions?

nf.newling
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Re: Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby nf.newling » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:42 pm

I am using Bill Bedford's Heavy Duty W irons and MJT's 9 leaf springs on NE boxes.

davebradwell
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Re: Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby davebradwell » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:48 pm

It's dead easy to spring them using the existing axleguards. Just convert existing brg hole into a slot, probably using a little 2mm wide chisel filed up from a piece of 2mm silver steel - I've done loads of axleguards this way but, of course, it's easier in a milling machine. The bearing goes in a little carrier plate with a piece of 30g phos bronze wire 25 long on top for a spring or you can bend the whole shape out of the wire which wraps round the bearing flange and splays out at a higher level to form the spring. More details if you're interested - I've only done a couple of these hoppers but Chris P has at least a dozen done this way.

The wagon comes out a bit high so I've adjusted the position of the slot to correct this.

DaveB

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Wizard of the Moor
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Re: Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby Wizard of the Moor » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:53 pm

Miscellany Models do a nice underframe and detailing etch that allows you to ring the changes a bit with these wagons.

https://miscellanymodels.com/wagons/ner ... ling-pack/

I haven't got round to building any yet, but they look the part. I do notice that instructions are still to be uploaded, though.
James Dickie

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Paul Cram
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Re: Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby Paul Cram » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:15 pm

I have d D&S W irons on the ones I have done. A SAE enquiry to see if he has some in stock may work

Daddyman
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Re: Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby Daddyman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:25 am

Wizard of the Moor wrote:Miscellany Models do a nice underframe and detailing etch that allows you to ring the changes a bit with these wagons.

https://miscellanymodels.com/wagons/ner ... ling-pack/

I haven't got round to building any yet, but they look the part. I do notice that instructions are still to be uploaded, though.

Doesn't include the W-irons - he himself used BB ones:
https://highlandmiscellany.com/2014/12/29/ner-hoppers/

davebradwell
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Re: Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby davebradwell » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:42 am

I still can't see the point of changing the axleguards when perfectly good ones are provided in the kit and they fit perfectly. I've never fitted etched axleguards apart from a few wagons when I started. Saved myself a lot of time and money. I suppose it depends on whether you see wagons as star performers or just part of the overall effect.

DaveB

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jjnewitt
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Re: Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby jjnewitt » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:48 am

davebradwell wrote:I suppose it depends on whether you see wagons as star performers or just part of the overall effect.


Or perhaps worthy of a similar level of attention to what goes on the front of the train maybe? Whatever the builder decides that 'level' that is. Some people spend forever on their locos and, even taking into account the additonal effort to make them work, something like 150 hours for a kit built a tender engine is huge amount of time for what amounts to little more than 9"-10" of train. At that kind of rate perhaps we should be spending 45 hours on a single wagon? :-) Even I don't do that. As with everything in this wonderful hobby there's as many approaches as poeople in it. The only wrong aproach to me is one where you're deluding yourself as to what you can actually achieve.

Justin

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Noel
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Re: Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby Noel » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:29 pm

jjnewitt wrote:The only wrong aproach to me is one where you're deluding yourself as to what you can actually achieve.


:thumb :thumb

I have run a Slaters 21T hopper rigid in P4 and it ran OK; it's only 10ft 6ins wb after all. It was one of my earlier vehicles, converted from OO. What I really don't like about it now is the lack of any detail inside. If I replace it I would have to do something about that lack, so it can be run empty, whatever I did or didn't do about the chassis [although I would probably try and use Dave Bradwell's method].
Regards
Noel

Daddyman
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Re: Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby Daddyman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:33 pm

davebradwell wrote:I still can't see the point of changing the axleguards when perfectly good ones are provided in the kit and they fit perfectly. I've never fitted etched axleguards apart from a few wagons when I started. Saved myself a lot of time and money. I suppose it depends on whether you see wagons as star performers or just part of the overall effect.

DaveB

I see your point, Dave, but why go to all the trouble of getting the flanges and track to scale, when a couple of millimetres away there's an oversize plastic W-iron? (It's a rhetorical question - you've already answered it: the reason is time.)

davebradwell
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Re: Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby davebradwell » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:24 am

Well the plastic axleguards are just a bit thick really so I chamfer the edges and yes, it is all about time. I think there's more reward from replacing brake lever and guard, although I didn't do this on this hopper as the moulded bits are quite fine. I do actually have a few nicer wagons with Justin's bits and even my own underframes. During proper operations you've more on your mind than the thicknesss of axleguards and when a train runs through you don't notice individual wagons and loco and brake van get the most attention - unless there's some horror like a wobbly wheel. Perhaps we pick out the bad before the good. Empty and full wagons are different as it's easier to put weight inside fulls and it would be a waste of time detailing the interior.

Regarding rigid/sprung if a wagon is likely to be shunted then I want it sprung with rigid vehicles confined to block trains - I'm not there yet. Also, whereas re-wheeled rtr wagons are ok, I suspect a kitbuilt wagon may not be quite as true and, anyway, it's just as easy to build it sprung.

DaveB

Daddyman
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Re: Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby Daddyman » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:57 pm

davebradwell wrote:During proper operations you've more on your mind than the thicknesss of axleguards


I'm the other way round: when tackling axleguards, I've got more on my mind that proper operations! But I'm prepared to accept that that is a perverse view to take....

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Compensating slaters NE hoppers help

Postby Mark Tatlow » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:43 am

Sorry, a bit late to the party on this one.

The detailing etch that Dave refers to is mine but it does not include operational W-irons. It does includes the external W-irons that some of the NER hoppers used (although I think most or all were subsequently removed) but these do not fulfil a function of actually supporting the axle, they are just cosmetic.

I wouldn't dream of not putting sprung suspension on kit built wagons. This is less to do with whether they might be possible to build them without it is just that if you use suspension, whether you get the body/underframe perfectly square is not that relevant. If you do build without then the performance of the vehicle is much more sensitive to this even if there is a bit of slop in the bearings and you have very flat track.

And, the Bill Bedford sprung axleboxes are really simple to make, so it is reflex action to use them.
Mark Tatlow


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