Wagon W-iron types

Triode
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 10:20 am

Wagon W-iron types

Postby Triode » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:49 am

Hi All,

I'm trying to determine which Alan Gibson W-iron etch would be suitable for a BR Trout ballast hopper (there's a close-up image here: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/troutzfo).

More generally, I'd be interested to learn whether there is any resource which could help me break down which types of W-irons were used in which time periods and on which prototypes. Many of them look similar to me. For example: how can you visually tell the RCH 1907 pattern from the 1923 pattern?

Many thanks,

Liam

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jjnewitt
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Wagon W-iron types

Postby jjnewitt » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:53 pm

The axleguard is an RCH heavy duty type on those Trouts. The riveted axlebox guide is a good incicator of a heavy axleguard as would be the carrying weight of the wagon. You'd generally expect to find them on wagons with a 20T+ load. Do Alan Gibson do wagon axleguards? Bill Bedford does the correct type which can be found via Eileen's Emporium product code BBWF006-4.

No idea what the difference between a 1907 and 1923 standard axleguard is. Probably not much. Bit before my time of interest.

Justin

Triode
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Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 10:20 am

Re: Wagon W-iron types

Postby Triode » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:14 pm

Thanks Justin, that's very helpful.

I meant to say Bill Bedford for the etches.

Cheers,

Liam

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Hardwicke
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Re: Wagon W-iron types

Postby Hardwicke » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:46 pm

From memory the obvious difference is actually on the solebar. 1907 had a semi circular plate. 1923 had 3 bolts.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

billbedford
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Re: Wagon W-iron types

Postby billbedford » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:03 am

Hardwicke wrote:From memory the obvious difference is actually on the solebar. 1907 had a semi circular plate. 1923 had 3 bolts.

These differences were in the nature of the solebars. Wagons with the semi-circular crown plate had plain wooden solebars, while those with just bolts had a steel flitch(strengthening) plate on the outer face.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

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Noel
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Re: Wagon W-iron types

Postby Noel » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:21 am

billbedford wrote:These differences were in the nature of the solebars. Wagons with the semi-circular crown plate had plain wooden solebars, while those with just bolts had a steel flitch(strengthening) plate on the outer face.


For any reader that doesn't know, Bill's comment refers to wood underframes. Iron and steel underframes didn't have crown plates.

Triode wrote:I'm trying to determine which Alan Gibson W-iron etch would be suitable for a BR Trout ballast hopper (there's a close-up image here: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/troutzfo).More generally, I'd be interested to learn whether there is any resource which could help me break down which types of W-irons were used in which time periods and on which prototypes. Many of them look similar to me. For example: how can you visually tell the RCH 1907 pattern from the 1923 pattern?


I model the same period as Justin, so don't normally need to look at this. However, so far as I know, the visible differences between 1907 and 1923 specifications relate to the layout of chassis members, and the types of axleboxes and buffers normally used. There can be minor variations in the point at which the diagonals meet the verticals noticeable in some photographs, but not relatable to any particular specification, so far as I know. It wouldn't affect interchangeability. The major visible difference is, as Justin states, that 20T versions are bigger and have rivetted axlebox guides.

RCH specifications weren't retrospective, and there were commonly transition periods between them, as each spec basically codified existing best practice at the time [in the interim agreed changes were notified by circulars], but were compatible, so that a wagon built to the 1907 spec would probably acquire 1923 spec components over time owing to overhauls and repairs. They might also change to oil axleboxes instead of grease, which the 'big four' did not like, but couldn't ban. BR did inherit some grease box RCH coal wagons on nationalisation, I believe, but they disappeared as soon as BR could manage it. Any surviving pre-1923 wagons were also on the list for early disposal, owing to their age and, in many cases, limited capacity, so the time window for them being seen alongside Trouts built in 1949 and 1951 would be small.

So far as the grouped railways and BR are concerned, there are wagon books available for each which give details of their chassis construction. They are probably no longer available new now, apart from the two LNER volumes, but may well be available second-hand, assuming you don't know someone with copies you can borrow.
Regards
Noel


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