cast off thy shackles

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steve howe
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cast off thy shackles

Postby steve howe » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:32 pm

I am building a heavy well wagon for our club narrow gauge layout (0-16.5 :-o :shock: :shock: ) and the load (a steamroller) will be held down by chain. I thought I'd have a go with the Ambis shackles but so far haven't found much visual reference as to how they were used. The wagon has rings bolted to its floor for the chain/rope to pass through, I'm guessing the shackles were attached in-line to allow for tensioning.
Were the hooks attached to the chain ends and then to the shackle loops?

Any pointers on shackeling practices?

Steve

(closet narrow gauger)

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LesGros
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby LesGros » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:16 pm

Steve,
Try:
BR20426 British Railways – 3 Instructions and Diagrams for Loading and Securing Long, Projecting and Otherwise Exceptional Loads, Also Procedure Regarding Acceptance and Conveyance of Out - Of - Gauge and Otherwise Exceptional Loads
and
BR20427 British Railways – 4 Instructions for The Loading and Securing of Containers on Rail Vehicles

Goto:
http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html

and scroll down.
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

John Palmer
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby John Palmer » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:24 am

The arrangement with which I am most familiar is a chain having hooks at both ends. On a roller, such a chain can usually be passed through the rolls, atached to the tethering loops of the vehicle on which it is carried, and then tensioned with an appropriate tensioning device. This might be the screw type such as that represented by Ambis, or a lever-operated cam tensioner with which I am more familiar.

Normally, in my experience, the hook at one end of the chain will be attached directly to a tethering loop, whilst the hook at other end of the chain will be passed through the corresponding loop on the other side of the vehicle and then hooked onto one of the chain links. The tensioner is then used to tauten the lashing.

Can I suggest that an implement wagon such as a Lowmac is more appropriate for carriage of a road roller? I shudder at the thought of trying to drive a roller onto the well then going back and forth to align it. Manoeuvring with smooth steel rolls on steel plate has a high pucker factor!

There is a picture of a model Aveling roller on a GW Diag. F2 wagon at http://bambrickstudio.co.uk/bucks-hill/ which may be helpful in showing the lashing arrangement.

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steve howe
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby steve howe » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:37 pm

Many thanks for useful notes guys, I take the point about getting the roller into the well wagon.... :-? Mine has a hefty planked deck with checkerplate end platforms, but I guess driving the roller on from the end would be an easier load. Maybe have to consider another wagon!

Oh well, its only narrow gauge..... ;)

Steve


ps Some fantastic shots of Bucks Hill btw!

Terry Bendall
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:05 am

One of the things to check is the weight of the load and what the rated load of the wagon is. It is common at exhibitions to see wagons with loads which on the prototype would be far too heavy for the wagon. The same fault occurs with wagons carrying tanks and other armoured vehicles.

A quick check of some pictures reveals an Aveling & Porter roller at 10 tons, a Burrell at 8 tons, a Fowler at 12 tons and a Wallis and Stevens at 5 tons. Quite a variation so perhaps identify the type of roller first. Getting it all right! :) Another common error is heavy loads with nothing tying them down, or insufficient tying used. As always the answer is to find some pictures.

Terry Bendall

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steve howe
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby steve howe » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:49 pm

Thanks Terry,
The bogie goods vans we run on the Helford Valley layout (see It at Warley this month!!!) are based on L & B ones rated at 8 tons so a bogie wagon with suitably strengthened frames could carry at least 10 tons, at least in my parallel world..

I'm reluctant to post a picture of this wagon because a) its not 4mm P4 and b) its a freelance design, the sort of thing that could have been made by a local foundry/engineering firm, however here's a shot of the proposed roller load:

DSC_0249.JPG


I am no expert on steam rollers and I didn't build the kit, but I am becoming more convinced it wouldn't go on a well wagon regardless of weight!

John Palmer
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby John Palmer » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:55 pm

A Wallis and Steevens Simplicity roller (NB spelling). Nominally three tons in weight, but take that with a pinch of salt. An Aveling BSD class roller, with which I have some familiarity, is supposed to be a ten-tonner, but in working order it probably tips the scales at a figure much closer to 14 tons. And I can think of a tonnage plate on one engine that's definitely telling fibs!

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jim s-w
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby jim s-w » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:12 pm

steve howe wrote:Thanks Terry,
I'm reluctant to post a picture of this wagon because a) its not 4mm P4 and b) its a freelance design, the sort of thing that could have been made by a local foundry/engineering firm,


So? Sounds interesting, I doubt I'm the only one who would like to see it.

Jim

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Flymo748
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:11 am

jim s-w wrote:
steve howe wrote:Thanks Terry,
I'm reluctant to post a picture of this wagon because a) its not 4mm P4 and b) its a freelance design, the sort of thing that could have been made by a local foundry/engineering firm,


So? Sounds interesting, I doubt I'm the only one who would like to see it.

Jim


Ditto. Good modelling is good modelling, regardless of gauge or scale. I'd be very interested in seeing what you've done.

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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steve howe
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby steve howe » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:01 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
jim s-w wrote:
steve howe wrote:Thanks Terry,
I'm reluctant to post a picture of this wagon because a) its not 4mm P4 and b) its a freelance design, the sort of thing that could have been made by a local foundry/engineering firm,


So? Sounds interesting, I doubt I'm the only one who would like to see it.

Jim


Ditto. Good modelling is good modelling, regardless of gauge or scale. I'd be very interested in seeing what you've done.

Cheers
Flymo


Oh go on then..... :roll:

I should warn you, 7mm narrow gauge can be very beguiling

Triang -Rovex frames, Ratio bogies, Wrightlines wheels, 60 thou styrene deck suitably distressed, Slaters checkerplate on the ends, home-made tethering rings and Grandt Line nuts and bolts. By heck these old RR models were solidly made, intended to be boy-proof presumably. This one had massive brass rivets holding the bogies on which had to be sawn off, I wanted to keep the old bogies but the wheel flanges were so thick they clouted the Kadee draft box on curves so had to be replaced with something more "finescale"

DSC_0252.JPG
still in the raw state


DSC_0256.JPG
I don't know what the opposite of 'cut and shut' is.....but the underworks don't look too pretty!


DSC_0257.JPG
with the proposed load, still minus shackles!


Hope to get it painted this weekend.

John Palmer
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby John Palmer » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:33 am

That's nice! I remember having one of those Tri-ang well wagons; mine was moulded in bright orange plastic.

Having now seen the wagon, I think this may be a practical loading proposition, made less intimidating by the wooden rather than steel bed. The only way to load will be by reversing onto the well, but some brisk work on the steering wheel is going to be required.

Terry Bendall
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby Terry Bendall » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:33 am

steve howe wrote:I should warn you, 7mm narrow gauge can be very beguiling


Having in the last few years got involved with helping at the 2 foot gauge Leighton Buzzard Narrow gauge Railway I know what you mean Steve. So far I have resisted the temptation - too much modelling of standard gauge prototypes that I want to do. :) Of course if I succumbed in 7mm scale the rails would have to be 14mm apart!

Terry Bendall

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jim s-w
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby jim s-w » Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:49 am

Good stuff Steve

Let's not forget the obvious solution to your loading quandary. It simply could have been loaded by crane.

Cheers

Jim

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grovenor-2685
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:27 pm

The only way to load will be by reversing onto the well, but some brisk work on the steering wheel is going to be required.

Although I'm sure you would have to prop the side of the wagon to avoid tipping it over when backing on. So add some timber packing and a couple of jacks to the load, they need to go with it so they are available for unloading.
Regards

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steve howe
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby steve howe » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:09 pm

jim s-w wrote:Good stuff Steve

Let's not forget the obvious solution to your loading quandary. It simply could have been loaded by crane.

Cheers

Jim


Yes interesting point Jim, one of our Club members who knows a thing or two about heavy machinery, reckoned it would be well within the capabilities of a medium yard crane.

Along with the jacks and timber blocks, I'm thinking some parephenalia associated with the roller travelling with it; a few sacks of coal and maybe a water bowser tied on to the end decks :thumb

Steve

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steve howe
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby steve howe » Mon May 01, 2017 7:39 pm

Sorting out the stock for our April exhibition, it occurred to me I never got round to posting the pics of the finished project so here it is:

roller1.JPG
The roller in transit


Yes it really is fag paper clearance between the well wagon and the rails...I had to do a bit of weeding before we could get a clear run!

roller3.JPG
and just for good luck, its waterbowser went along too


roller2.JPG
The HVR had to order a special train to cope with the load


It makes an amusing interlude for relieving the tedium of exhibition running, the next project is a pilot gig on another bogie bolster!

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steve howe
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby steve howe » Thu May 11, 2017 1:25 pm

Anyone going to ExpoEM this weekend can see it in the flesh as Gweek North Quay is guest scale this year.

Steve

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Re6/6
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby Re6/6 » Thu May 11, 2017 3:53 pm

Lovely stuff Steve! :D
John

John Palmer
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby John Palmer » Thu May 11, 2017 5:20 pm

The wheels on that water tender are exquisite and capture the appearance of the full size article perfectly! Looking forward to seeing this at Expo on Saturday.

The only other item you might add to the roadmaking set-up would be a living van, but long distance road movement for a Simplicity isn't straightforward (you can't readily fire on the move), so seeing a Simplicity-van-water tender combination is a bit unlikely.

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Flymo748
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Re: cast off thy shackles

Postby Flymo748 » Thu May 11, 2017 7:11 pm

steve howe wrote:Anyone going to ExpoEM this weekend can see it in the flesh as Gweek North Quay is guest scale this year.

Steve


I should be visiting ExpoEM (Spring) on Saturday, given a decent time at parkrun and a good trip around the M25.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing this in the flesh.

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk


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