7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

CaptainTony
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7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby CaptainTony » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:42 pm

How do I convert the Realtracks FLA 'Lowliner' Bogie Container Wagons to P4 (or even S4).
The problem is the prototypes have 540mm wheels, on LTF13 bogies, wheelbase 1,800mm.
So in P4 this requires 7.08mm disc wheels.
Where can I obtain 7 mm disc wheels that will run on P4 - there's the Markit wheels (RP25?) or 7mm RP88 Scale Brass Plated wheelsets sold through D & E Video. (Any experience).
Any thoughts on the bogie - the Realtrack ones are press-fit inside bearings but I think there's enough flex in the plastic bogie to work in P4, though empty flats are extremely light.

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Guy Rixon
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby Guy Rixon » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:46 pm

Just a crazy thought: could there be N-gauge wheels with a suitable tyre-width and effective flange-width?

CaptainTony
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby CaptainTony » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:51 pm

Yes, I was thinking about N gauge wheels.
Or maybe someone could produce them - there must be a market in finescale 4mm modelling.
Tony

garethashenden
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby garethashenden » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:58 pm

7mm would be N gauge coach wheels. You will want N gauge, not 2mm finescale.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby grovenor-2685 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:26 pm

Intercity models used to have a wide range of wheel sizes, probably including 7mm but I have not heard of anyone taking on the range since they gave up.
Regards

taylorc
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby taylorc » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:06 am

Hi
I have converted a FLA to P4. I machined down the original brass wheels which are 6.75mm dia. I reduced the flange depth from0.65mm to 0.4, reduced the flange width from 0.75mm to 0.4 and the overall tyre width from 2.8 to 2mm. The wheels were then mounted on Ultrascale 2mm P4 square ended axles. I also added a 1.5mm thick washer behind each wheel to control side play. Note that doing all this still results in the wagon riding about 1mm too high. I have corrected this but it means cutting the metal chassis into bits and sticking it back onto the plastic body. It seems to run OK on P4 track, but does need additional weight.
I have another one to convert and will probably try the Parkside Dundas 7mm N gauge disc wheels, part no PN64. These have a dia of 7mm, a flange width of 0.5mm, a flange depth of 0.6mm and a tyre width of 1.97mm. However the axle dia is 1.5mm.

Hope this helps

Colin

CaptainTony
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby CaptainTony » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:26 pm

Thanks Colin,.
I thought I may be the only one! But we shouldn't need to go to all these lenghs. Surely, the basics of a finescale society is to help modellers with track and wheels. Also, this is for a wagon of modern times. For attracting new members - and by this I mean younger members - to the society, they will want to convert modern locos and rolling stock. As a society I think we have lost focus on this ( ie wheels and track for the modeller) and focussed more on 'the bigger picture' - which should apply to all finescale modelling whatever the gauge or scale.
I have contacted Ultrascale but it seems it will cost a lot of money to produce the moulds - still, once done ...
Tony (a P4 Modern Image Modeller)

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grovenor-2685
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:17 pm

Tony,
IMHO, Society policy for a long time has been to avoid competing with trade suppliers, this has meant that we have not produced wheels since the P4/Studiolith days on the basis that Sharman, Ultrascale, Kean Maygib, Alan Gibson, Exactoscale, Intercity, Colin Craig provided a good range. If there are now serious gaps in the available wheels perhaps this needs to be identified to the committee to see if a case for a project to fill the gap can be established.
See the relevant digest
Regards

Tim Easter
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby Tim Easter » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:22 pm

taylorc wrote:I have another one to convert and will probably try the Parkside Dundas 7mm N gauge disc wheels, part no PN64. These have a dia of 7mm, a flange width of 0.5mm, a flange depth of 0.6mm and a tyre width of 1.97mm. However the axle dia is 1.5mm.


Random thought... Would sleeving the axle in 2mm OD/1.5mm ID tube be worth a shot? I do similar for 2.5mm diameter axle stuff in Bachmann DMUs where I wish to use a normal 2mm diameter axle in trailing bogies.

HTH,
Tim

CaptainTony
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby CaptainTony » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:27 pm

Thanks to Tim & Colin. So, I need an EF (effective flange) of 0.4mm and a FD? (flange depth of 0.4mm) and BB (back to back) of 17.7mm.
So, a PD N gauge 7mm wheel should be pretty near (with a 1.5mm axle is replaced by a longer 1.5mm axle and a sheath of brass tube 2mm O/D and 1.5mm I/D.
I can do that! Let's hope it works... now, should I use Loctite 601 or 603 retainer?
Many Thanks,
Tony

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Flymo748
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:04 am

grovenor-2685 wrote:Tony,
IMHO, Society policy for a long time has been to avoid competing with trade suppliers,


Hi Keith,

I can confirm that you are absolutely correct on this - it remains Society policy to not compete with products that are available elsewhere in the market. That is especially the case when manufacturers do or may produce something for P4 modelling, or indeed are Society members themselves.

Of course we also go further in being very keen to help Society manufacturer members, either by stocking their products in the Stores or by providing them with webspace for their own "shopfront".

As a Society we see ourselves very much as being complementary to them, and not in competition. That does not stop us exploring the idea of new products if there seems to be a need, and we are always receptive to new ideas, as you point out through that Digest Sheet.

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

nigelcliffe
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby nigelcliffe » Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:36 am

CaptainTony wrote:Yes, I was thinking about N gauge wheels.
Or maybe someone could produce them - there must be a market in finescale 4mm modelling.
Tony


As others have said, 2mm finescale wheelsets are too narrow in the tread for P4 use. N gauge may be appropriate.

I could provide some indirect contacts to low-volume Chinese manufacture for N wheels. An N gauge modeller has sent me some 6.3mm dia N wheels he had made in China, and the production examples came through as "very good" on my measuring equipment. I think he'd pass on his contacts. Probably looking at £1000 for a batch, perhaps a little less, maybe a little more.


- Nigel (wagon wheel production coordination for the 2mm Scale Association ).

Crepello
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby Crepello » Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:20 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
grovenor-2685 wrote:Tony,
IMHO, Society policy for a long time has been to avoid competing with trade suppliers,

Hi Keith,

I can confirm that you are absolutely correct on this - it remains Society policy to not compete with products that are available elsewhere in the market. That is especially the case when manufacturers do or may produce something for P4 modelling, or indeed are Society members themselves.

In the case of wheels, though, would the provision of a type which the trade shows no interest in, really be considered 'competition'? I'm thinking BR 9F here, for starters!

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grovenor-2685
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:06 pm

In the case of wheels, though, would the provision of a type which the trade shows no interest in, really be considered 'competition'?

No, see my post above, and Flymo's confirmation. Note, Society investment does need a bit more than just "I want one" from somebody hence the reference to the Digest sheet. How long would it take to sell £1000 worth of FLA wheels for example? Assuming that is a realistic batch cost.
Regards

Hardwicke
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Re: 7 mm wheels for Realtracks FLA container flats

Postby Hardwicke » Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:05 am

What is really needed is a flange tool.


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