GN Ballast Brake Van Stove

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Will L
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GN Ballast Brake Van Stove

Postby Will L » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:32 pm

I'm slowly putting together a permanent way train from the D&S GN kits. I've got to the interior that ballast brake van. It has two workman compartments as well as the Guards own compartment and I've got a fair idea how to do most of it. The floor plan in the kits shows that there was what I assume was a typical Brake Van coal stove, but I'm not at all sure I know what one would have looked like, Anybody got an ideas/pictures?
Last edited by Will L on Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

shipbadger
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby shipbadger » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:55 pm

Will,
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 739&type=1

This links to a fellow volunteers Facebook page. The stove is from a SR Queen Mary brake but I think most railways used something similar. There are/were a couple of other stoves lying around so if you want more detail/dimensions I can have a look on Wednesday for you. Sadly the cast iron is life expired on many nowadays having split or had various lugs fall off. Note the recess for the tea can on the top!

Tony Comber

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Flymo748
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:42 pm

Will L wrote:I'm slowly putting together a permanent way train from the D&S GN kits. I've got to the interior that ballast brake van. It has two workman compartments as well as the Guards own compartment and I've got a fair idea how to do most of it. The floor plan in the kits shows that there was what I assume was a typical Brake Van coal stove, but I'm not at all sure I know what one would have looked like, Anybody got an ideas/pictures?


Black? Round?

Seriously, having looked at the pictures of the prototype in Vol.1 of LNER Wagons, I'd be surprised that you could see *anything* distinct in the interior of one of those vans. So something vaguely dustbin sized and shaped would probably be as good a bet as anything.

Actually, thinking about it, if it can't be seen on the photos...

Cheers
Flymo
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Will L
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby Will L » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:15 pm

shipbadger wrote:Will,
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 739&type=1

This links to a fellow volunteers Facebook page. The stove is from a SR Queen Mary brake but I think most railways used something similar. There are/were a couple of other stoves lying around so if you want more detail/dimensions I can have a look on Wednesday for you. Sadly the cast iron is life expired on many nowadays having split or had various lugs fall off. Note the recess for the tea can on the top!


Thanks Tony that ought to be the thing I need, only I can't see the photo. Facebook permissions and all that.

shipbadger
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby shipbadger » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:30 pm

Will,

Sorry about that, worked alright for me when I tried it out! I'll take the camera on Wednesday when I'm next volunteering and get you some shots, I'll take a measure as well to give you some key dimensions. They're certainly not dustbin sized as somebody else has mentioned, smaller than that and they only take a small amount of coal, less than my domestic grates.

Tony Comber

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Will L
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby Will L » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:49 pm

Flymo748 wrote:Seriously, having looked at the pictures of the prototype in Vol.1 of LNER Wagons, I'd be surprised that you could see *anything* distinct in the interior of one of those vans. So something vaguely dustbin sized and shaped would probably be as good a bet as anything.

Actually, thinking about it, if it can't be seen on the photos...

There's a big difference between things you really can't see (like tubes in the bolier) and thing you can't see very clearly which are in the same space as things you can!

I suppose I could just painted the inside of the windows dirty, but having sorted out a reasonable way of glassing the guards lookout, decided to put in the partitions, then the seats, and progressing on to fitting out the guards compartment properly, their doesn't seem to be a lot of choice with the stove.

Trouble is, until I put on the roof I can see it all only too clearly.

dal-t
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby dal-t » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:03 pm

The National Preservation site has pictures of several - obviously there were slightly different types, but it seems a bit haphazard what was fitted to what. Apparently full-sized versions do come up regularly on evil bay, but a quick search tonight didn't reveal any to me. Of course, the Slater's 20-Ton LMS/BR Goods Brake comes complete with a 7mm one - perhaps you could scale it down?
David L-T

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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby beachboy » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:43 am

Will,

Most Stove's seen, or drawn, were a basic object without any design finesse.
Being a cylinder 2-3 times larger than the chimney pipe. A coned top. Flap door to put in coal, hinges usually to the left.
And a possibly cast Iron base / grate with a metal strip shaped around the base for obvious reasons.
I have read of some having a upper recess for the Guard to place his brew to keep warm, without falling off.
I suspect this object, was similar to basic workman huts, to domestic environments.
I recall my first house of 1899 vintage still having the same thing. From which - I assume one could add a shovel, and bucket for the 'borrowed' coal.

As for not seeing inside, I detailed the interior of a Break Van with a Rooflight, simply as an education for such things.
True not much could be seen. However, when low Winter light came through window, and helped by the lighter interior painting. I could see everything, and wished I added the guard.

So there. Steve.

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Will L
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby Will L » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:02 pm

I have found this on the Tyne and Wear Museum site which is from a NE brake van and answers many of my questions
Image
So unless somebody can tell me that a GN versions was significantly different...

Alan Turner
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby Alan Turner » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:10 pm

Cushions! have they all gone soft or something? Now when I were a lad...............................

Alan

dal-t
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby dal-t » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:17 pm

And shiny paint - never seen that before! But look at that weatherboard on the veranda door. I know its meant to be tough up north, but it really would have to be coming down in rods to need that. I suspect some over-enthusiastic restoration ...
David L-T

shipbadger
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby shipbadger » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:31 am

Will,

As promised I went and photographed a couple of stoves only to find that I had used a corrupted card in the camera, doh!
I did however also take a few measurements, these are for the round type. Essentially the layout is the same as the square type shown in the photo above. The firing doors are hinged or fit by lugs at the bottom and on the two I looked at the door at the bottom for ash removal is hinged on the right.

The 'trough' at the bottom in which the stove sits is 18" in diameter and 3" high.

The stove itself measured 19" from the trough to the top of the hotplate, but there are mounting blocks of approx 1" thickness under the base of the stove so the actual casting is 18" tall.

The stove is 6" diameter at the top and 10" diameter at the base.

Hope this helps, I'll try again for the photos.

Tony Comber

shipbadger
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby shipbadger » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:36 am

dal-t wrote:And shiny paint - never seen that before! But look at that weatherboard on the veranda door. I know its meant to be tough up north, but it really would have to be coming down in rods to need that. I suspect some over-enthusiastic restoration ...

Had a look at the Queen Mary I've been helping to repaint, never really noticed before but on looking it had similar weatherboards on the doors. Perhaps it was something they'd always fitted and nobody had thought to delete it from the specifications?

Tony Comber

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Will L
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby Will L » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:03 pm

shipbadger wrote:Will,

As promised I went and photographed a couple of stoves only to find that I had used a corrupted card in the camera, doh!
I did however also take a few measurements, these are for the round type. Essentially the layout is the same as the square type shown in the photo above. The firing doors are hinged or fit by lugs at the bottom and on the two I looked at the door at the bottom for ash removal is hinged on the right.

The 'trough' at the bottom in which the stove sits is 18" in diameter and 3" high.

The stove itself measured 19" from the trough to the top of the hotplate, but there are mounting blocks of approx 1" thickness under the base of the stove so the actual casting is 18" tall.

The stove is 6" diameter at the top and 10" diameter at the base.

Hope this helps, I'll try again for the photo.


Tony thanks for that definitely useful. A couple of questions. looking at the picture I was assuming that the ash fell directly into the iron trough as I cant see any sign of an ash pan door. From what you say the one your looking at has both an ash pan door and a firing door. The coke stove/boiler I grew up with in our kitchen was fired through a circular cover on the top which did get quite hot and would double as a hot plate. In one of these does the circular plat on the top lift off or is it just there to provide a location for the guards "snap" tea can.

shipbadger
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby shipbadger » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:57 pm

Will,

It was only when I looked at the photo of the square one that I realised the arrangements for ash removal differed. All the ones we have on the DFR have two doors, one to feed in the coal and one to rake out the ash. The 'hot plate' has a retaining rim to stop the can sliding off and is definately not removable unlike the typical 'pot belly' stove or the old AGA hot water heater we had in my house.

Tony

shipbadger
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby shipbadger » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:42 pm

DSCF0152.JPG
DSCF0150.JPG

After putting a card in my camera that wasn't defective I managed some shots of a 'round' stove today. The metal plate at the bottom seems to be a common (universal?) fitment. Does this stop the stove fretting holes in the floor or allow heat to disperse?
I gave the dimensions in a previous post.
Tony Comber

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Will L
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Re: GN Blast Brake Van Stove

Postby Will L » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:20 pm

Tony

Excellent thank you, that certainly answers the questions. I think the metal plate,which as you say always seems to be there, is to stop the stove from setting the floor alight. The written sources often speak of these stove glowing nicely when in use.

Again thanks for taking the trouble. Most helpful.


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