Wagon kit detailing

bordercollie
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:58 am

Wagon kit detailing

Postby bordercollie » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:04 pm

Hi
I am new to modelling and want to start off with a reasonably easy project. I have 3 slaters/Pendon Museum kits purchased some years ago. These are discribed as Gloucester R.C.& W Co. 6-plank Private owner. I would like to purchase "state of the art" items if possible. There is a bewildering array of manufacturers. So I am hoping that I can get some guidance on Wheels and axles, W irons, brake gear, couplings, draw hooks and sprung buffers and shanks etc.

User avatar
Flymo748
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Wagon kit detailing

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:23 pm

Graham wrote:
bordercollie wrote:Hi
I am new to modelling and want to start off with a reasonably easy project. I have 3 slaters/Pendon Museum kits purchased some years ago. These are discribed as Gloucester R.C.& W Co. 6-plank Private owner. I would like to purchase "state of the art" items if possible. There is a bewildering array of manufacturers. So I am hoping that I can get some guidance on Wheels and axles, W irons, brake gear, couplings, draw hooks and sprung buffers and shanks etc.


Okay, I'll bite ;-)

I have an unopened one of these in a box (Slaters reference 4PO35) and having cracked it open and looked at the kit, my thoughts would be:

Wheels and axles - I'm a bit of a neanderthal on this, and see nothing wrong with Alan Gibson wheelsets, if you do a bit of quality control first to weed out any duff ones. I understand that the purists choice is Exactoscale, and I don't see why not. Perhaps someone that's tried them can explain the relative merits of pinpoint versus parallel axle ends.

W irons - Bill Bedford sprung ones. BWF001 on http://www.mousa.uk.com/Cat/OLCat4/wirons.html seem to be the most appropriate. If you're modelling the wagon loaded, then you can just flip the floor upside down and you have a nice flat surface to play with.

Brake gear - tricky. again Exactoscale does a good range, but without illustrations to compare against the kit I couldn't say which if any was a match. Personally I'd go for Masokits. Have a look at http://www.scalefour.org/masokits/index.htm and download a catalogue.

Couplings - whatever suits you! Why not buy the Society's newly published book on the Alex Jackson coupling and give these a try ;-) Otherwise, three-link with the links made yourself or bought in (Exactoscale...), or my previous preference of Sprat & Winkle 3mm couplings as proposed by Philip Hall in MRJ 0, all those years ago.

Draw hooks - MJT cast white metal. I still prefer the smooth three dimensional curves of these over anything else.

Sprung buffers and shanks - well, looking at the kit shanks, which are pre-bored for fitting steel buffer heads, I'd be tempted to drill them through carefully and just use the Alan Gibson sprung buffer heads with the bushes mounted behind the headstocks. As long as you get a good close sliding fit on the shanks, and keep oil and similar well away, I don't see why they shouldn't give the correct (lack of) friction to work properly. I've used this dodge successfully before and it's worked, as well as keeping the rather nice Slaters buffer body details.

You didn't mention axleboxes - if you're very careful with a scalpel, you may be able to salvage and re-use the Slaters ones by cutting away the W-irons, but failing that I'd be off to MJT again for the 2255A type. Annoyingly, they seem to be *the* only type of MJT axlebox that I don't have a stock of! So I'm afraid that I can't tell you how good they are :-(

HTH
Paul
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

davebooth

Re: Wagon kit detailing

Postby davebooth » Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:57 pm

bordercollie wrote:Hi
I am new to modelling and want to start off with a reasonably easy project. I have 3 slaters/Pendon Museum kits purchased some years ago. These are discribed as Gloucester R.C.& W Co. 6-plank Private owner. I would like to purchase "state of the art" items if possible. There is a bewildering array of manufacturers. So I am hoping that I can get some guidance on Wheels and axles, W irons, brake gear, couplings, draw hooks and sprung buffers and shanks etc.


This is only to add weight to Paul's reply really. I think that I and the whole area group at Manchester would agree totally with those suggestions.
However I would add two points:
1. The exacto range of wheels is available with pinpoints, not only with parallel ends, however I've only used the pinpoint ones and yes they're OK.
2. To lower the skill demand of fitting Bill's sprung 'W'irons try using the wagon chassis baseplates available from stores. These not only make fitting Bill's unit accurately an absolute doddle, they also give you some metal to which the etched brake gear can be soldered.

davebooth

Re: Wagon kit detailing

Postby davebooth » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:01 pm

davebooth wrote:
bordercollie wrote:Hi
I am new to modelling and want to start off with a reasonably easy project. I have 3 slaters/Pendon Museum kits purchased some years ago. These are discribed as Gloucester R.C.& W Co. 6-plank Private owner. I would like to purchase "state of the art" items if possible. There is a bewildering array of manufacturers. So I am hoping that I can get some guidance on Wheels and axles, W irons, brake gear, couplings, draw hooks and sprung buffers and shanks etc.


This is only to add weight to Paul's reply really. I think that I and the whole area group at Manchester would agree totally with those suggestions.
However I would add two points:
1. The exacto range of wheels is available with pinpoints, not only with parallel ends, however I've only used the pinpoint ones and yes they're OK.
2. To lower the skill demand of fitting Bill's sprung 'W'irons try using the wagon chassis baseplates available from stores. These not only make fitting Bill's unit accurately an absolute doddle, they also give you some metal to which the etched brake gear can be soldered.


Sorry I missed saying that the wagon chassis baseplates are a Palatine Models etch. ~Pictures and further details are at viewtopic.php?f=30&t=124

User avatar
jsherratt
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:21 pm

Re: Wagon kit detailing

Postby jsherratt » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:00 am

If I might add just a couple of thoughts here, while mostly agreeing with what has already been said.

I'd suggest as well as Exactoscale, you check out the wagon wheels from Ultrascale. I've used these as my standard for over 25 years and find them of a very consistent high standard. They come ready assembled on the axle ready to drop in, though I always check the b to b first, never take this as being right on any wheels, they can sometimes be very slightly "loose" but nothing that a slight twist won't fix. See:

http://www.ultrascale.co.uk/

The downside is that, according to their web site, they have a turnaround time of 10 weeks at the moment which is a nuisance if you want to "get cracking" though IMHO they are worth the wait.

My present draw hook of choice is that from Masokits, in etched brass that folds double to give a reasonable thickness. A little work with a file easily gives the impression of a round casting.

If you want to upgrade the brake gear, I'd suggest you look at the range of etchings from Bill Bedford, less of a fiddle to put together than that from Masokits, though I'd accept the Masokits gear is very nice. I've no experience of that from Exactoscale. Or, as an interim route you could just chop away the moulded on safety loops from the brake gear and replace this with flattened wire it's surprising how much of a difference just doing this does.

Hope this is some help. John

tmcsean
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:34 pm

Re: Wagon kit detailing

Postby tmcsean » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:14 am

Brakes:
I think there is a lot to be said for the ABS white metal cast brake units, particularly for a beginner and for those who want to build their wagons by the train-load and run them on a layout. Etched brake gear (Masokits, Bedford, etc) looks finer if it is built nicely, but can be a devil to get right and is time-consuming. I use it for special wagons or when I feel the burns on my fingertips are healing nicely, but for 30-truck trains I feel the cast rods and shoes are fine.

These days I always cut off the rather crude cast safety loops and replce them with Bedford etches, and I usually use etched v-hangers from a variety of sources. Unmodified brake leavers can look heavy, but the old trick of gently chamfering the top edge with a file makes a big difference while retaining strength.

This is some way from the state of the art approach of most of the other contributions and won't win prizes, but with a thoughtfully scruffy paint job it does the trick for me.

Tony McSean

tmcsean
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:34 pm

Re: Wagon kit detailing

Postby tmcsean » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:29 am

PS
If I remember rightly, the Slaters kits, being old, don't have any moulded plank detail on the inside. If that is so, and you plan to run them unladen, then adding this neatly before you build the body is by far the most important bit of detailing you can do. It's not hard if you use a skrawker, which is a heavy craft knife whose hooked blade has the cutting edge turned back towards you, gently.

While you have the skrawker in your hand, the gaps between the planks on ageing wooden minerals was nothing like as neat and even as Slaters' beautiful moulding, and I usually open some of them out to varying degrees. Some pictures show daylight showing through where the plank edges have shredded or rotted.

Tony McSean

User avatar
BryanJohnson
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:45 pm

Re: Wagon kit detailing

Postby BryanJohnson » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:10 pm

I've got a couple of Slaters mineral wagons on my bench and can confirm that these have no representation of internal planking.

As well as scribing the plank lines, don't forget there's also all the internal strapping to add as well.

I don't know how old the kits are as I think I got them on a secondhand stall. Maybe now I understand why.

tmcsean
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:34 pm

Re: Wagon kit detailing

Postby tmcsean » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:56 pm

I think in their own terms they are very decent kits. They are an excellent basis for a model, and I have packed a couple of unmade Slaters minerals to take with me on a longish overseas posting. You have to be careful about internal ironwork on these wagons - the few photos show that there is considerable variation between broadly similar wagons, and that not all 7-plankers had anything more than bolt heads inside.

Tony McSean

kelham
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:17 pm

Re: Wagon kit detailing

Postby kelham » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:04 pm

tmcsean wrote:I think in their own terms they are very decent kits. They are an excellent basis for a model, and I have packed a couple of unmade Slaters minerals to take with me on a longish overseas posting. You have to be careful about internal ironwork on these wagons - the few photos show that there is considerable variation between broadly similar wagons, and that not all 7-plankers had anything more than bolt heads inside.


I seem to have come rather late to this party! On the matter of internal ironwork for the Slaters wagons, yes there were variations, but the 6-plank design generally has the diagonal washer plate inside the wagon, continuing behind the curb plate and finally bolted to the front of the solebar with a bolt that also fixed the cross member. I don't think there was ever a case of washer plates inside and outside on the same alignment.

But the most important bit of internal ironwork was the side knee iron, of which there were usually four, an L shaped piece bolted to the top of the cross member, which supported the side sheeting either side of the door (end door wagons had extra knee irons to cope). This was a substantial piece of metal approx 2" wide and about 1" thick at floor level tapering to perhaps 3/8th of an inch at the top (these figures are from memory and may not be totally accurate. If anyone insists I dare say I could look them up...). There were quite often washer strips inside the corner plates, though not from memory on this particular design.

Hope this is of some, belated, use.

Richard


Return to “Wagons”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest