Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Steve Bomford
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 2:45 pm

Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Postby Steve Bomford » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:03 pm

Hi

I have a complete blue and grey Hornby HST formation with the latest Hornby power cars. Can anyone give me some help with the following:-

1) What S4 wheels should I use for the power car and dummy conversion.
2) What S4 wheels should I use for the coaches.
3) What improvements can I make to the couplings to be more prototypical.
4) What general improvements can I make to the rake.

Steve

User avatar
Simon Glidewell
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:08 am

Re: Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Postby Simon Glidewell » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:20 pm

Hello Steve,

Ultrascale produce some P4 wheels for the HST, albeit for the earlier type of drive. However, it might be a starting point for the wheels which could be combined with the gears from your model. Couplings could be scratch built from nickel silver wire but with detail additions from plastic rod, etc, with reference to prototype photos. I think Jim SW has converted Hornby or Lima HSTs to P4 so he might be able to help.

Cheers
Simon

Terry Bendall
Posts: 1635
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Hornby HST

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:07 am

About 9 years ago I made as model of the then New Measurement Train, in the consist as it was at that time. For the motorised power car I replaced the Hornby mechanism with a Bachmann class 24 one, and adapted the power car chassis to take it. I cannot now remember the exact details of what was needed but there was not a lot of work involved. The other power car was left without a motor. All the coaches and the trailing power car were fitted with Gibson wheels, but probable any suitable P4 wheels would do. KD couplings, with the "tail" cut off were used between the vehicles in the set - not strictly correct but since they cannot be seen very clearly when in use they are close enough for our purposes.

Other small detailing was added as required and this of course will depend on what you are modelling. At that time the NMT consisted of three Mk 3 coaches, and two Mk 2 ones and there were modifications needed to the windows, roofs and under frames. Most of the small details were scratchbuilt using styrene. I think wire handrails were fitted where needed. As with anything else, find pictures of both sides of each coach and the roofs and model what you see.

The NMT consists of five coaches plus the trailing power car and the mechanism coped very well with the load. If you intend to model a full length set then it would probably cope with that but it may be that an additional power unit would be needed.

It would be worth while checking the new Hornby range for accuracy. The HST coaches may be OK but I gather that the new Mk 3 buffett coach has the same roof as the TSO coaches!

There will be others on the forum who will be able to advise further.

Terry Bendall

User avatar
John McAleely
Posts: 1114
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:08 pm

Re: Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Postby John McAleely » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:54 am

This was two threads. I've taken the liberty of merging them.

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 1720
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Postby jim s-w » Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:20 pm

Hi

My HSTs use bachmann 25 chassis so I'm afraid I can't help. Sorry

Jim

John Fitton

Re: Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Postby John Fitton » Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:44 pm

My HST uses the original power cars, so that info is not relevant. For the trailer cars I have used MJT torsion bar comensating units with Gibson 4S13 wheels. The lack of brake gear on the MJT torsion units is ok since the HSTs use disc brakes, and the 4S13 wheels are just excellent in my experience have simulated brake discs on the wheel outer faces. For couplers I standardize on Kaydee #5. Their performance is excellent when installed properly. I have standardized on a coupler height of 12 mm (corrected from 12.5 mm in OP) to the coupler centre line, which although precludes automatic uncoupling with the standard kaydee magnets gives a good representation of the UK knuckle coupler and height. At present my cars dont have gangways! Next on list to do. I weight all cars to NMRA standards which is 1 ounce plus 0.5 ounces per inch or car length. I weight to 7 ounces. Both my power cars are powered and can lift the 8-car consist up 1 in 50 including a 3 foot radius curve at a scale 100 mph. I might add that although the press stud fastener arrangement of the MJT units assists maintenance, the fastener arrangement does not allow smooth uniterrupted yaw of the bogies (swivelling, or turning), with the result that without copious lubrication and fettling, random derailments occur at facing turnouts. Swithching to the brassmasters approach of a small screw and nut arrangement eradicates this completely. Hope this helps.

JF

Terry Bendall
Posts: 1635
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:26 am

Further to my earlier posting, it was probably a Bachmann class 25 rather than a 24 that I used. I forgot to mention suspension - mainly because there is none on our NMT just like other most other coaches that I have converted. Like John, where I have used MJT units I avoid the use of the press stud fitting.

Terry Bendall

Steve Bomford
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 2:45 pm

Re: Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Postby Steve Bomford » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:35 pm

Hi

Thank you all for some really excellent information, all I need now is some spare time to start the conversion.

Steve

Steve Bomford
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 2:45 pm

Re: Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Postby Steve Bomford » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:36 pm

Hi

As part of my detailing I am planning to replace the Hornby couplings with Kadee couplings. Does anyone have any experience fitting them to Hornby Mk3s.

Thinking more generally about the rake what additional detailing should I add. Am I right in thinking that the coaches are individually lettered, who provides the transfers.

Thanks again for the help.

Steve

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 1720
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Postby jim s-w » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:05 pm

Hi Steve

Fox do the transfers. There's a step on the left hand end that you need to add (I use n guage signal ladders with some rungs removed) I think the hornby models have the wheel slip gear on the bogie sides.

What HST are you doing? Ther are different types and more importantly different types of buffet coach. The hornby one is only really suitable for ECML sets.

A very very rough guide is

ECML 2x first, buffet (3 large windows), 4 x second and 1 TGS.
London - west sets 2x first, buffet (4 large windows) 3x second and 1 TGS
Cross country sets 1x first, buffet (4 large windows) 4x second and 1 TGS

Edit, for more see http://www.p4newstreet.com/test-2.html

HTH

Jim
Last edited by jim s-w on Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Steve Bomford
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 2:45 pm

Re: Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Postby Steve Bomford » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:28 pm

Jim

Thank you for the notes,it is a blue grey Western Region set as running out of Paddington.

Steve

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 1720
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Postby jim s-w » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:14 pm

Hi Steve

You will need a 4 window TRB then, see http://80srail.zenfolio.com/p746052712

HTH

Jim

Terry Bendall
Posts: 1635
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Converting A Hornby HST To S4

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:53 am

Steve Bomford wrote: I am planning to replace the Hornby couplings with Kadee couplings. Does anyone have any experience fitting them to Hornby Mk3s.


On the NMT mentioned earlier I used Kadee No 5. The curved part underneath - used I think for automatic uncoupling was cut off flush and they were fixed to the underside of the coach with 10BA screws. A bit of trail and error is needed to set them at the correct distance and they are overscale but between two coaches they give a reasonable representation of a knuckle coupling. You may have to do some surgery on the coach ends for clearance.

Terry Bendall


Return to “Diesel and Electric Locomotives”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest