DJM Class 71

Simon Glidewell

DJM Class 71

Postby Simon Glidewell » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:26 pm

As the class 71 seems to be going ahead, as the basic number of sign ups has been reached, what do others think about approaching Ultrascale for a possible set of drop in P4 spoked replacement wheel sets? Failing that I suppose a similar route to the Dapol class 22 could be taken using modified Gibson wheels or something similar?

Simon

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jim s-w
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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby jim s-w » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:25 pm

Far too early Simon. Theres no DJM product to give even a slight hint of how it will be arranged mechanically and even if there were it would be mad to assume a similar system would be used. At this stage it would be better to approach DJM with advice on what would be best. Ie use a solid 2mm axle

Cheers

Jim
Jim Smith-Wright

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Over thinking often leads to under doing!

Simon Glidewell

Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Simon Glidewell » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:17 am

True Jim, but I was just seeing if there was any initial interest.

Colin Parks

Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Colin Parks » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:39 am

Hi Simon,

I wonder if Ultrascale already produces examples of spoked wheels for tenders or pony trucks which would suit the class 71. Mr Ultrascale would be more amenable to mixing and matching wheels in his range with suitable axles (whatever they might be) to make up a conversion set for the DJM 71. He did that for the Hornby class 73, which has wheels from a diesel set in his range (the type I forget) rather than a special tooling. Other than that, remember whet Tor Giffard paid Ultrascale to convert the wheelsets for a trio of class 22s!

I am sorely tempted by the thought of buying a RTR class 71, but let's see what it looks like first!

Colin

Simon Glidewell

Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Simon Glidewell » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:28 pm

Colin Parks wrote:Hi Simon,

I wonder if Ultrascale already produces examples of spoked wheels for tenders or pony trucks which would suit the class 71. Mr Ultrascale would be more amenable to mixing and matching wheels in his range with suitable axles (whatever they might be) to make up a conversion set for the DJM 71. He did that for the Hornby class 73, which has wheels from a diesel set in his range (the type I forget) rather than a special tooling. Other than that, remember whet Tor Giffard paid Ultrascale to convert the wheelsets for a trio of class 22s!

I am sorely tempted by the thought of buying a RTR class 71, but let's see what it looks like first!

Colin


Good idea Colin. Jim is right about the solid 2mm axle though; until we know what the set up chassis wise will be, speculative advances to Ultascale are a bit premature at the moment. I hope that the loco doesn't have the same axle arrangement as the Dapol class 22. I do know a couple of things about the loco that don't appear on the RMweb thread, however (someone I know on RMweb asked some questions to DJ Dave on my behalf):-

1. The model won't have a "working" sprung pantograph; instead it will be plastic (to the correct pattern) but will be able to be positioned. Dave said that because of DCC there was no point having a working pantograph. If I got one of these locos for SMH I would want the pantograph to work and be able to collect current, as I plan to add some electrified SR pattern catenary, as found at Hoo Junction, among a number of SR locations and private industrial sidings (erected specifically for the classes 70 and 71):-

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21602076@ ... /lightbox/

around the power station area (I would also add working third rail pick ups to the loco). Judith Edge produce a 4mm (and 7mm) etched kit for a working sprung pantograph for the class 71 which costs £7 plus postage; so I would get one of these and replace the plastic DJM version. Obviously it would be wired to the can motor.

2. The gap between the bogies and the body will be to scale (unlike the Dapol class 22); Dave confirmed that he wanted to repeat what he did with the Dapol Western in this respect. An unsightly gap would ruin the looks of this rather neat and handsome design. This was my biggest concern about the unseen loco.

Dave also said he is going to try, if possible, to accommodate P4 modellers with the bogies (thin enough to take P4 wheel sets without having to carve away plastic or supply after market replacements).
Last edited by Simon Glidewell on Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Colin Parks

Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Colin Parks » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:31 pm

Well all that sounds very promising Simon.

I shall start saving now!

Colin

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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Re6/6 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:44 am

Simon Glidewell wrote:Dave also said he is going to try, if possible, to accommodate P4 modellers with the bogies (thin enough to take P4 wheel sets without having to carve away plastic or supply after market replacements).


I can confirm that he said that "he would certainly try" when I spoke to him a couple of months ago.
John

Simon Glidewell

Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Simon Glidewell » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:52 am

I've just ordered one of the all green class 71s from the Kernow Model Centre. I was torn between that and a rail blue one, but the original livery really looked good on the class and it survived until 1967 and possibly a little beyond. I decided to get one now at the lower price, as the next batch (if they ever get produced; I don't think the loco will have mass appeal beyond the initial sign up due to its limited sphere of operation and due to the fact that many can't remember them or even knew they existed) will be selling at circa £139 instead of £125. Also with Kernow being at Warley this weekend, I think the last of the initial batch may well sell out. I think that mark is quite close by all accountants. I shall now place an order for a Judith Edge pantograph kit. That's my entire modelling budget gone for a long time!

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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby jim s-w » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:39 am

Hold that credit card! Hornby have announced a 71 too!

Cheers

Jim
Jim Smith-Wright

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Over thinking often leads to under doing!

Simon Glidewell

Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Simon Glidewell » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:21 am

Yes I've just seen this Jim. What a surprise! It's like the time Mainline and Lima both released a Warship simultaneously. Hornby claim 2016 as their delivery date; DJM mid 2015. After the rotting class 31 fiasco and the 4 VEP; 2 BIL cock ups (to name but a few) I wouldn't touch the big H again. It would have made more sense for Margate to have produced the class 74 and beaten DJM to that.

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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby jim s-w » Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:07 pm

DJM haven't even started yet so mid 2015 is optimistic in the extreme. It's going to have to be rushed like mad to get anywhere near

Cheers

Jim
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

Simon Glidewell

Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Simon Glidewell » Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:24 pm

They've scanned the loco. If I cancelled my order would that help Jim?

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jim s-w
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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby jim s-w » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:43 am

Hi Simon

I'm just hoping you and other people don't get stung that's all. You are certainly brave putting cash up on a complete unknown I'll give you that.

Cheers

Jim
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Over thinking often leads to under doing!

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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Re6/6 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:32 am

jim s-w wrote:Hi Simon

I'm just hoping you and other people don't get stung that's all. You are certainly brave putting cash up on a complete unknown I'll give you that.

Cheers

Jim


There's no risk Jim.

This is normal for 'crowd funded' projects.

When you place your order for one of the four exclusive models below, you will be charged the £125 in full as soon as you place the order. Your funds are secure with Kernow Model Rail Centre and will be kept in a dedicated account. Kernow Model Rail Centre will release the funds required to further the project as each milestone in development is reached.

Milestones include, laser scanning, cad/cam development, 1st EP tooling and 2nd EP tooling.

In the unlikely event that the project does not proceed then all monies will be refunded in full. You can also cancel at any time, without penalty, and receive a full refund, right up until the model is sent to you. The easiest way is to pay through the website, but you can also send a cheque or visit Kernow Model Rail Centre in person and pay by cash.


Also, if you pay by Visa card the usual protections for items over £100 would apply.

I feel very confident having ordered one.
John

Simon Glidewell

Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Simon Glidewell » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:35 pm

Re6/6 wrote:
jim s-w wrote:Hi Simon

I'm just hoping you and other people don't get stung that's all. You are certainly brave putting cash up on a complete unknown I'll give you that.

Cheers

Jim


There's no risk Jim.

This is normal for 'crowd funded' projects.

When you place your order for one of the four exclusive models below, you will be charged the £125 in full as soon as you place the order. Your funds are secure with Kernow Model Rail Centre and will be kept in a dedicated account. Kernow Model Rail Centre will release the funds required to further the project as each milestone in development is reached.

Milestones include, laser scanning, cad/cam development, 1st EP tooling and 2nd EP tooling.

In the unlikely event that the project does not proceed then all monies will be refunded in full. You can also cancel at any time, without penalty, and receive a full refund, right up until the model is sent to you. The easiest way is to pay through the website, but you can also send a cheque or visit Kernow Model Rail Centre in person and pay by cash.


Also, if you pay by Visa card the usual protections for items over £100 would apply.

I feel very confident having ordered one.


Me too. John is absolutely right here and paying by credit card protects you from any risk. The biggest "risk", in my opinion, is not getting one if you miss the first production run, as I'd be surprised if there will be enough interest in the model after that, as I reckon those that want one will have ordered from the first wave.

All the best
Simon

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jim s-w
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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby jim s-w » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:58 pm

Re6/6 wrote:
Also, if you pay by Visa card the usual protections for items over £100 would apply.



Sound advice

Cheers

Jim
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Over thinking often leads to under doing!

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Rod Cameron
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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Rod Cameron » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:39 am

Colin Parks wrote:I wonder if Ultrascale already produces examples of spoked wheels for tenders or pony trucks which would suit the class 71. Mr Ultrascale would be more amenable to mixing and matching wheels in his range with suitable axles (whatever they might be) to make up a conversion set for the DJM 71. He did that for the Hornby class 73, which has wheels from a diesel set in his range (the type I forget) rather than a special tooling. Other than that, remember whet Tor Giffard paid Ultrascale to convert the wheelsets for a trio of class 22s!


I seem to remember taking a bit of a punt with some Ultrascale LNER tender wheels for my DC Kits 71, but the profile is a bit fine so I've yet to decide whether or not to use them.
Rod

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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Re6/6 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:23 pm

John

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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Re6/6 » Fri May 26, 2017 1:54 pm

Mine arrived last week from Kernow Models and it is a beauty. Well worth the wait.
004.jpg

003.jpg

006.jpg


There are two bags of 'bits' including buffer beam blanking plates. conductor shoes etc and also an assortment of-slot in route codes.

It runs superbly from 'slug mode' to normal. IHMO it just looks a little better than the Hornby one, particularly in the bogie detail department. Also the finish is less 'plastic looking' compared to Hby version. All this is of course, is purely subjective. The pan is very delicate though non-functional. It compares well with Micheal Edge's one. It looks like it would be quite feasible to replace it if a 'live' one was required.

The wheels are 12 spoke and 16.3mm dia which comes out at 4'.075" (4' 1") so the nearest that l can see are Ultrascale GWR 12 spoke tender wheels at 4' 1½".

I've removed one motor bogie keeper plate to reveal the driven gear and axle arrangements. I have to say that its removal was very easy, unlike many hard to unclip ones that l've managed to break/damage in the past.

What it revealed was really good news for P4 conversion with the well thought out space between the insides of the frames, thus saving the usual filing away of said inside faces which often can be problematical.

The other alternative might be to turn them down depending on the metal used. I've turned down Bach diesel wheels before which came out nicely as they use 'friendly' metal as opposed to Hby ones which were of an awful hard material.

The snaps should show it all

008.jpg

007.jpg

011.jpg

013.jpg
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John

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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby jim s-w » Sat May 27, 2017 9:25 am

Re6/6 wrote:What it revealed was really good news for P4 conversion with the well thought out space between the insides of the frames, thus saving the usual filing away of said inside faces which often can be problematical.


Bit confused by this comment. I don't think I've ever had to file down the insides of the frames on a RTR diesel or electric loco. Which locos need this?

Jim
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Over thinking often leads to under doing!

Colin Parks

Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Colin Parks » Wed May 31, 2017 9:37 pm

Hi Jim,

I cannot be sure exactly which (if any) RTR diesel/electric locos require their bogie side frames to be filed down when fitting P4 wheels, but the Hornby 2 BIL and Brighton Belle* (BB) EMU models certainly do need their motor bogie side frames thinning quite a lot - and that is to just to accept Exactoscale wheels with scale width tyres. Using other makes of P4 wheels, with 2mm wide tyres, dictates widening the transoms on these particular models.

The overall width of side frames on third rail models is critical, as altering this measurement from scale width affects the alignment of the collector shoes with the third rail. Hornby add the extra thickness required for robust plastic-moulded side frames to the inside face, which is fine for 00, and perhaps EM gauge.

Colin

* I used a Hornby BB motor bogie to power a 4 COR EMU, which has been converted to P4 using Exactoscale wheels.

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jim s-w
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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby jim s-w » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:28 am

Thanks Colin. Ive come across it on some wagons and coaches too. I read your post over on rmweb but didn't see the comparison post you pulled. It's pretty poor form when someone like yourself, who very clearly has demonstrated he knows a thing or two on southern things, feels he has to self censure his comments for fear of A bunch of RTR fanboys having a breakdown! :D

Cheers

Jim
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Over thinking often leads to under doing!

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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Re6/6 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:06 pm

jim s-w wrote:
Re6/6 wrote:What it revealed was really good news for P4 conversion with the well thought out space between the insides of the frames, thus saving the usual filing away of said inside faces which often can be problematical.

Bit confused by this comment. I don't think I've ever had to file down the insides of the frames on a RTR diesel or electric loco. Which locos need this?
Jim


Opening out the frames was needed with the Dapol 22. Indeed l recall that most others were sufficiently wide!
Dapol 22 P4.jpg
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John

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Re: DJM Class 71

Postby Horsetan » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:35 pm

Re6/6 wrote:.....The other alternative might be to turn them down depending on the metal used. I've turned down Bach diesel wheels before which came out nicely as they use 'friendly' metal...


As has been done with a Dapol Cl.22, it looks like you'll have to turn the tyres and flanges off completely before pressing the remaining centres into suitable P4 tyres (AGW?)
That would be an ecumenical matter.


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