Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

shipbadger
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Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby shipbadger » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:15 pm

Hi all,

Just wondered if anyone had had the chance to examine the new Sentinel shunter from Hornby and could comment on the practicality of converting it to P4.

Tony Comber

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Flymo748
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:05 pm

shipbadger wrote:Hi all,

Just wondered if anyone had had the chance to examine the new Sentinel shunter from Hornby and could comment on the practicality of converting it to P4.


Hi Tony,

It hasn't been converted (yet) but there is a very honest review by James Wells over on his blog.

http://eastmoor.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/hornbys-new-sentinel.html

You could keep an eye open for when James actually does the conversion, or simply subscribe to the blog for a good read from time to time.

James is a damn good modeller to boot - he picked up a trophy at Scaleforum 2013 :-)

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Re6/6
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Re6/6 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:12 pm

John

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steamraiser
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby steamraiser » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:32 pm

Over on RM Web I was advised that Tim H on DEMU had carried out a P4 conversion.

Gordon A
Bristol

Terry Bendall
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Terry Bendall » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:59 am

Flymo748 wrote:It hasn't been converted (yet)


Oh yes it has! :)

steamraiser wrote:Over on RM Web I was advised that Tim H on DEMU


I am sure that Tim can post some details of his very easy conversion using Gibson wheels.

I have also just done one using Black Beetle wheels which since they have a 2mm axle and the Hornby wheels are on a 3mm axle, needed a bit of work to turn up a pair of new axles. For those without a lathe I have worked out a way of making some axles using brass rod and tube which seems to work. Using the Black Beetle wheels means that it is easier to deal with the pickups since you are not trying to line them up with the types on Gibson wheels.

There is some work to do in widening the space between the cosmetic side frames and space between the brake gear pull rods also need widening. In addition I fitten some extra pickups. It now runs well and is very good for finding dead spots in the track. ;)

How it was done will be described in the next but one edition of Rail Express.

Terry Bendall

Tim Horn
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Tim Horn » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:01 am

Yes, it was fairly painless.

I've used what I had in stock, some Alan Gibson 3' pug wheels on 3mm axles. Not the correct wheel face, but it was just to see how easy it is to convert. I've re-used the original gear. Little bit of fiddling to get it to run well, but for the price it's quite a nice little model.

Cheers
Tim

Hornby Esso 4wDM Sentinel converted to P4 TJH03 6th January 2014 Copyright Tim Horn.jpg


Hornby Esso 4wDM Sentinel converted to P4 TJH04 6th January 2014 Copyright Tim Horn.jpg


Hornby Esso 4wDM Sentinel converted to P4 TJH02 6th January 2014 Copyright Tim Horn.jpg


Hornby Esso 4wDM Sentinel converted to P4 TJH01 6th January 2014 Copyright Tim Horn.jpg

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steamraiser
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby steamraiser » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:07 pm

Hi tim,

Thanks for the info and photos.
The leading questions are:
1) IWas there enough clearance to enable to refit the outside frames in their original position?
2) What does she run like after the conversion?

Gordon A
Bristol

Tim Horn
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Tim Horn » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:21 pm

steamraiser wrote:Hi tim,

Thanks for the info and photos.
The leading questions are:
1) IWas there enough clearance to enable to refit the outside frames in their original position?
2) What does she run like after the conversion?

Gordon A
Bristol


Gordon,

No clearance, just a bit too tight. The outside frames need pulling off, they appear to be held in by superglue on a couple of little pips. Bit of brute force and twisting and they come off. Remember to twist the brakes pipes out of the way too. The frames do need chopping at the ends to the angle of the body and re-glue them into just a bit of a wider position than the original holes.

It ran ok, not really had much time to play around with it to be honest, but then I didn't test it before I converted it :D

I would probably have a go at Terrys way if I do another one, just so I can use Black Beetle wheels as they look better. The wheel faces are quite noticeable on the prototype . . .

Cheers
Tim

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David B
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby David B » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:52 pm

This thing is a put-up job, isn't it? It looks like one of those child's push-along locos that run on wooden track with grooves. Is this something Hornby has produced from moulds of yesteryear found at the back of a cupboard?

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steamraiser
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby steamraiser » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:11 am

Thanks for the info Tim.

David, I have not seen any comments on the thread on RM web regarding its inacuracies, so why the negative vibes?

Gordon A
Bristol

Terry Bendall
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:36 am

davidb wrote:This thing is a put-up job, isn't it?


No so David. :) Try entering "Sentinel 0-4-0 Rolls Royce diesel shunter" into your search engine. You should get a listing for a good picture reference for these machines. The site I found included the Esso one which one of the three liveries that Hornby have modelled.

The Sentinal company became Sentinel (Shrewsbury) Ltd in 1947, and developed a new range of diesel lorries. Despite this sales diminished throughout the 1950s. The factory was acquired by Rolls-Royce for diesel engine production. Later they moved into production of diesel shunters. A range of types were produced including a 34 ton chain drive 0-4-0, a 48 ton 0-6-0 rod coupled machine and later a 74 ton 0-8-0 powered by 2 x C8SFL engines, (a really funky machine) and a 40 ton 0-4-0.

These locos were used in a wide range of industrial situations, including MoD locations. For those building SGW layouts and who want to feature some diesel motive power, this is an ideal way in without having to build an etched brass kit. The model can be tweaked for a bit of fine detailing but is a good start. The one I am working on at present will be used on Elcot Road for shunting the coal trains. Elcot Road has been invited to Scalefour SW in August so it can be seen then.

Terry Bendall

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David B
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby David B » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:41 am

steamraiser wrote:David, I have not seen any comments on the thread on RM web regarding its inacuracies, so why the negative vibes?


Not negative vibes, Gordon, but just my view of it (and nothing to do with RM Web). I really thought it one of the charicature 'toy' models and was surprised to find it electrified. I thought (and still do) it looked like something that should have one of those friction motors to whizz it across the carpet. The colour looks sickly 1970s, the glazing early Hornby and the exposed undercarriage very toy-like.

I have read Terry's reply and stand corrected, though my view of it doesn't change. When I saw it I immediately thought in the same stable as Brian Harrap's 'Flying Banana'. See the third image down on this thread from DRAG.

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jim s-w
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby jim s-w » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:06 am

Hi David

It does have outside frames which Tim has left of to show the conversion, it is mentioned earlier in the thread

Hth

Jim

Terry Bendall
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:31 pm

davidb wrote:though my view of it doesn't change.


We are all entitled to express our views David. :)

The model was reviewed in depth in the last issue of Rail Express (212) by someone I know quite well.

davidb wrote:The colour looks sickly 1970s,


The review covered all three colour schemes and commented that it appeared that the models were moulded in the body colour, rather than being painted. Hornby have said that this is not the case, but we remain unconvinced. The Esso one did run in red but like any other RTR model, an application of appropriate weathering will soon tone things down.

Ours will get a repaint anyway.

Terry Bendall

Natalie Graham
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Natalie Graham » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:20 am

Well here's a photo of the real thing (courtesy of Wikipedia Commons)

Image

Maybe someone will do a detailed repainted and weathered model of the Hornby one for comparison and it may be the model is a good starting point for a quality model but the product as it stands gives me a similar reaction to davidb. Although it clear that this is a model of the real prototype the look of the thing reminds me more of the Tri-ang Hornby dock shunter I had for my seventh birthday

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David B
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby David B » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:15 am

Natalie Graham wrote: . . . it may be the model is a good starting point for a quality model but the product as it stands gives me a similar reaction to davidb. Although it clear that this is a model of the real prototype the look of the thing reminds me more of the Tri-ang Hornby dock shunter I had for my seventh birthday


:thumb

decauville1126
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby decauville1126 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:38 pm

Whilst the original post was about converting to P4, most of the aspects raised about appearance, finish, and fidelity, have been dealt with over on RMweb with some pretty convincing results.

Natalie Graham
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Natalie Graham » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:12 pm

decauville1126 wrote: most of the aspects raised about appearance, finish, and fidelity, have been dealt with over on RMweb


That'll be why I haven't seem them then ;)

Terry Bendall
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Terry Bendall » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:15 am

Natalie Graham wrote:Maybe someone will do a detailed repainted and weathered model of the Hornby one for comparison

Terry Bendall wrote:The one I am working on at present will be used on Elcot Road for shunting the coal trains.


Terry Bendall wrote:How it was done will be described in the next but one edition of Rail Express.


All will be revealed in due course. And it may get on here too but you will have to wait until the magazine comes out first. :)

Terry Bendall

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MarkS
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby MarkS » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:40 pm

All will be revealed in due course. And it may get on here too but you will have to wait until the magazine comes out first. :)

Terry Bendall



So then, is this next on the "P4" list???
It is red and yellow too, probably will need springing though...

Tri-ang_R752_Battle_Space_Turbo_Car.jpg
Tri-ang_R752_Battle_Space_Turbo_Car.jpg (112.26 KiB) Viewed 10277 times
Cheers,

Mark.
"In the end, when all is said and done, more will have been said than done..."

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Re6/6
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Re6/6 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:27 pm

A snap that I took about ten years ago when it was OOS at the now closed Esso bitumen depot at Cattewater, Plymouth, in its nicely weathered condition.
.
img026a.jpg


img025a.jpg
John

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Tim V
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Tim V » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:12 am

I have converted the Triang dock shunter to P4, what's wrong with that?
Tim V
Scalefour News Editor

decauville1126
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby decauville1126 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:51 pm

Recent update today by Ultrascale seems to indicate they are looking harder at a P4 conversion set than previously indicated:

http://www.ultrascale.com/node/37

I've just turned one upside down and can't even force a pair of Gibson disc wheels between the cosmetic outside frames and brake gear so some tweaking to this area will be required whichever way one goes.

But have to say it's very good value for money as it stands.

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James Wells
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby James Wells » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:04 pm

Flymo748 wrote:It hasn't been converted (yet) but there is a very honest review by James Wells over on his blog.

http://eastmoor.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/hornbys-new-sentinel.html

You could keep an eye open for when James actually does the conversion, or simply subscribe to the blog for a good read from time to time.

James is a damn good modeller to boot - he picked up a trophy at Scaleforum 2013 :-)


Paul, you're too kind! Or perhaps, a little misguided or easily fooled?! ;)

My Dad spoke to Alan Gibson yesterday to see what wheels we could sort and they're now doing, I'm told, a conversion set for the Sentinel. So that's ordered and hopefully my long weekend off should see the loco converted to P4!

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Captain Kernow
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Re: Hornby Sentinel/Rolls-Royce shunter

Postby Captain Kernow » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:55 pm

I'm sure most of you know this by now, but Ultrascale have produced an initial batch of their 'P4-F' wheels (similar with EM) and sold out of the lot!

I was very lucky, as I e-mailed David Rogers at what must have been exactly the right time, as I'd spotted an entry on the Ultrascale website, intimating that they had completed 'conversion development', so I asked for a set of wheels to be reserved for me and one for John Farmer (Re6/6). I got an e-mail back just a few minutes later, asking if I'd like to trial a set in my Sentinel. The wheels arrived the next day, and the slender wheel treads mean that this really is a drop-in operation. Conversion took 20 mins, if that.

More on my RMWeb blog here - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... ted-to-p4/

I was slightly concerned that the narrower wheel treads might drop between the rails, but there was no such problem on Callow Lane, and once I'd given the mechanism a bit of 'upside down running in' (see blog), a smooth, sweet-running loco is the result.

Mr Brandreth was mercilessly exposed to this loco at a gathering of the Mid-Devon Finescale Group yesterday, and I shall be bringing it to DRAG and running it before his nose, until he repents!!
Tim M
Member of the Devon Riviera Area Group.


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