Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

MFD1
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Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby MFD1 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:14 am

Hello all,
So it's my first post to the group.....
I'm sitting looking at a bachmann 08 and the Alan Gibson conversion pack, I didn't want to wait till October for the ultrascale version. Just looking for some hints and tips please.
For example how much movement should be allowed in axle side play? Any thoughts gratefully accepted
Many thanks Michael

David Knight
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby David Knight » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:54 pm

Hi Michael,

The Bachmann frames pretty much contain all the side play you need. I've done three 08s and not found any need to use washers to restrict sideplay. The main trick is to get the wheels properly centred on the axles so an equal amount projects on either side for the cranks to be fitted on. Whose side rods will you be using?

HTH

David

MFD1
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby MFD1 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:44 pm

Thanks David
I've got a set of the Bill Bedford Rods,yep reckon its a tad under 5mm from the end of the axles.
Cheers Michael

Terry Bendall
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby Terry Bendall » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:19 am

We have two of the Bachmann 08s converted about 10 years ago, but not by me and using Ultrascale wheels. They work fine, including on some indifferent track and never fall off. There should not be any need to do anything apart from changing the wheels although some extra pick ups help with the running.

Terry Bendall

Philip Hall
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:49 pm

I did a couple of these many years ago for a friend who was just starting in EM. I found that the (Gibson) outside cranks were a little prone to shifting, so I pinned them in place as you would do for wheels.

Philip

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:11 pm

I did mine with a set of Ultrascales ready assembled wheelsets, the only set I have used. They also suffered from the shifting crank problem, I have not pinned them as loctite seems to have done the trick.
The only hard part of this conversion is persuading the pickups to contact the wheel rims reliably. I managed to twist them using tweezers up in the wheel space so that the contacted the edge of the flange reliably and have not had any need to add extra pickups. If you don't get your tweezer work right the pick up will be unreliable and you may need to add extras underneath as Terry suggests.
Regards
Keith

MFD1
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby MFD1 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:28 pm

Thanks for the comments, glad to report its up and running and running very well,even hardwired a DCC decoder in.
I found the Gibson conversion set really good,basically an unassembled Ultrascale kit. The thing that I found the most frustrating was with the coupling rods, I didn't bother with the Bill Bedfords as I found the hole for the crankpin way oversize for the Gibson crankpins,I didn't use the Bachmann but had a set of spare hornby ones that fit well and work well so will leave at that for now.Dont know if the brass masters replacement coupling rods are a better match for the Gibson crankpins???
I also cut away the original bachmann pickup strips and glued a couple of strips of copper clad to the underside of the loco and soldered on some scraper type pick ups,hardly anything new and i'm sure many have been there before me on this...
I've lactated the cranks but may will drill and pin them as well......
best wishes
Michael

David Knight
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby David Knight » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:11 pm

Michael,

The Brassmasters 08 replacement set work fine with the Gibson bushings. I've tried the finescale set and the standard and the finescale really do look better.

Cheers,

David

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jjnewitt
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby jjnewitt » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:42 pm

The Bill Bedford rods are specifically designed for use with the Ultrascale conversion pack which are in turn designed for use with the Bachmann coupling rods and so use the same sized crankpin bushes that Bachmann used which is a shade over 2mm. If you already have a set of Bill Bedford rods then you can recentre them using 2mm outside diameter, 1.5mm inside diameter tube which is avaliable from Eileen's Emporium (I'm assuming that Alan Gibson use 1.5mm crankpin bushes, I can't remember off the top of my head, other sizes are avaliable though). I've just done this with a pair of Bill Bedford etches that I've turned into a set for a Heljan class 14.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:17 pm

Brassmasters originally produced their 08 rods to scale, then found that Ultrascale had used crankpins in their conversion set sized to suit the Bachmann rods. By the time you opened out the rods to fit on the Ultrascale pins there was almost no material left around the hole. brassmasters then made a second variety with more metal on the bosses so that they could be fitted to the conversion sets. Hence Davknigh's mention of finescale and standard versions. The finescale version will be fine if you are using AG crankpins.
Keith

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Hardwicke
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:19 am

I had no problems using Gibson wheels but after about 2 years of exhibition and home running the flycranks came loose and it is currently in "The Works" with moved cranks. My Hornby one has the same problem. I believe it is caused by running too fast or straining the gearing, something that happens on the real ones too ( I remember Donny works open days with "moved cranks" written next to locos).
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

martin goodall
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby martin goodall » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:50 pm

This sounds like a case for pinning through the axle into the wheel (or, in this case, crank), as Tim Venton does (see his thread on the Bachmann 45XX conversion). Tim drills into the end of the axle, from a roughly central position at an angle which will take the drill into the wheel (the crank in this case). Then insert a length of wire, which will be held in place with a suitable super-glue.

I gather the idea of drilling through the axle first, before continuing into the wheel (or crank) is to avoid the drill wandering about in the plastic, which could happen if you did it the other way round - drilling in through the wheel (crank), then into the axle.

Having shifted a wheel fairly dramatically on my first attempted conversion of the Bachmann 45XX, I then pinned through the wheels, but I had not sorted out the mis-match between the chassis wheelbase and the coupling rods, and so the whole project is on hold pending a second attempt. At the moment this is one of a number of jobs awaiting delivery of another batch of round tuits. However, the wheels will definitely be pinned to the axles, once I have checked that everything is correctly set up and is running smoothly.

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Horsetan
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby Horsetan » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:13 pm

Just as a postscript to this, AGW's 08 rewheel pack is used on both Bachmann and Hornby - there is practically no difference between the two.

The front boss face of each driving wheel should be ideally fixed at 4.8mm from the end of the axle - I found this worked in conjunction with a back-to-back of 17.87mm. Note, however, that if using Exactoscale's BTB gauge, the rear boss of the AGW 08 wheel is too large to allow the wheel to slip fully into the gauge channel. I ended up rotating the wheels on their axle, by hand, at the top of the gauge, and hoping that nothing went askew. I think I got away with it.

When transferring the Hornby final drive gear to the AGW axle, the gear will spin freely unless you:

a. find some way of making the axle serrated or knurled in the right place; or
b. pin the gear to the axle. There is enough of a boss on the gear to allow you to drill slowly though it and the axle underneath. I couldn't find a grubscrew small enough, so used a simple bit of wire bent into an "S" shape. No Loctite was needed.

Hornby's outside frames similarly do not permit much if any sideplay, so I didn't use axle spacing washers.

I found that the outside cranks in my AGW sample pack were of a very rigid grade of plastic. To get the axle ends into them, I used a round needle file to create a taper at the back of the cranks. This meant I could then push them "home" comfortably, with just a smear of Loctite to hold things in place. Rather than use the GW quartering press this time, I opted to just do the quartering by eye alone. It all works, so I must have done something right! :shock:

Hornby's coupling rods appear as-near-as-dammit scale size, and need only the lightest touch of a round needle file in the crankpin bore to allow them to slip comfortably over AGW crankpin bushes. They don't need to be opened out any further. The knuckle joints pivot on an oversize rivet - I left this alone. You could replace with Brassmasters' scale-sized (not Bachmann) rods.

eBay provided all of the major components, so costs worked out as follows:

Hornby R2595 spare 08 body (EWS-livery, fully-fitted): £9
Spare working Hornby chassis, DCC-ready: £26.50
AGW rewheel pack with cranks: £10
X5410 detail pack (hoses / cables): £5

In the context of what a brand-new Hornby/China boxed example costs now, I think that cobbling it all together in S4 for a shade over £50 is fairly reasonable. You don't get any form of suspension, but as a first conversion project it makes an interesting testing exercise if you want something more than just "dropping-it-in".
Attachments
WP_20130309_002.jpg
All done, apart from trimming of the crankpins
Last edited by Horsetan on Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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Simon_S
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby Simon_S » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:59 pm

Bargain! I cleaned out the slots for the axle bearings so that the bearings could slide in them and stuck slivers of foam rubber to the bearings - instant suspension :D

Does your motor squeal like a stuck pig after a few minutes of use like mine does though? :(
Anyone know a fix for this? I've lost count of how many times I've stripped it down, freed up and lubricated a stiff bearing then put it back together with no improvement at all.

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Horsetan
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby Horsetan » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:14 pm

Simon_S wrote:Bargain! I cleaned out the slots for the axle bearings so that the bearings could slide in them and stuck slivers of foam rubber to the bearings - instant suspension :D


I think you might have raised the ride height slightly by doing that.

I didn't touch the slots at all. Rather, I filed the bearings themselves - the ones on mine were not identically machined, so four slid easily, whilst two were jammed-in. The two tight ones were filed down across the back and along the sliding surfaces; all seemed to be well after that.

Does your motor squeal like a stuck pig after a few minutes of use like mine does though? :(
Anyone know a fix for this?....


I found that the motor cradle / holder was tilted at an angle, so I jammed a bit of plastic underneath, table-leg style to level it all up. Nothing has squealed, but I swear I can hear an intermittent squeak. It doesn't happen often enough to be considered a problem.

It works well enough as it is. The gear ratio appears just right for a convincing crawl. Eventually I'd like to see if the motor can be replaced by a coreless one. The bodyshell clips on top of the underframe and chassis block so well that there is no need for any screws to hold it on.
Attachments
WP_20130309_005.jpg
Motor cradle not level
That would be an ecumenical matter.

chris58
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby chris58 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:54 pm

Hi
just wondering if you can still use bachmann coupling rods
Regards
Chris

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Horsetan
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Re: Bachmann 08 conv. Using Alan Gibson wheel pack

Postby Horsetan » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:09 pm

Oh, and as a postscript, I sold the original Hornby wheels, axles and cranks on eBay for a fiver, so technically speaking the 08 rewheel project cost me a shade over £45, not £50 :mrgreen:

chris58 wrote:...just wondering if you can still use bachmann coupling rods


You should be able to, though my understanding is that Bachmann rods are oversize.
That would be an ecumenical matter.


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