Converting the Heljan Class 35 'Hymek' to P4

Knuckles
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Converting the Heljan Class 35 'Hymek' to P4

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 04, 2012 12:07 pm

Previous descussions on this subject that persuaded me to make this dedicated thread is here.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2002&p=16358#p16358


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Apparently known to being one of the easiest 00 conversions to P4 known to mankind, I thought I'd give it a go.

Conclusion, MEGA easy, however, I had some difficulties that you are unlikely to have, thus I'll post them first.

In another thread above, I posted the start of it and had some bother, please read that first.
Knuckles wrote:Right, I've just spent 3 angry hours F****** about with it, dropping the wheels in wasn't much of a problem, however, when I applied power the wheels span and stopped, from then on was just a vibrating 'brrrrrrrr' So after lots of wheel faffing and bogey gear faffing I spent about 10 minutes trying to pry the body off, scared I was going to bugger it.

Is this REALLY nessasary?
Image

I don't have 16 hands, trying to unclip everything and pull everything all at the same time is a really un userfriendly design.

ok so I'm inside... great, motor, flywheel, drive shaft, universal joint, virticle gearbox, horizontal gear box, on both sides. Cue an hour or 2 of no progress.

Motor/flywheels were just 'brrrrring' side to side as if obstruction but could never find where it was, now when I test power there is just a quiet 'buur' with hardly any noise or movement at all.

I've removed wheels and put old ones back in and all sorts but no different.

Really unhappy and %$^&*() now cus I've got to find someone who knows what they are doing and repair it. Easy conversion may arse! Would have been if the model didn't decide to die on me.


before all that bother I had a short circuit that I didn't realise until the controller passsed out, I had a hammer accross the test track at the far end. MONG, so after that I changed controllers but loco was still almost dead, probably too hot. After the above quote the next day I went to my local Model Railway Club in Coventry and one of the guys had a look at it for me. His controller worked after a few tweaks and he deduced that I possibly hadn't put the wheels on the correct way because the 00 wheels have an insulated collar/washer on one side, I put it back together and it ran on the layout great. Anyway, content that it was me being thick I went home feeling better only to find that upon me testing it on my controller it was still 'Brrrring' again and doing not much. Perplexed at this I changed my controller back to the original one (that must have recovered) and wheeeynz! It was working! I had to muck about removing the bogey sides repeatedly becasue when you put them on they push the contacts out of position so when adjusting the pick-ups make sure you overdo them slightly to compensate. Now, awkwardness and most pitfalls aside I'll present the conversion.

This is the standard modul upturned with 00 wheels and bogey keeper plate in place.
Image

This is a P4 Ultrascale wheel plonked for comparison purposes.
Image

I wasn't sure how to get the keeper plate off, hence all the scratch damage and abuse. The sheet with the model was useless and so was my internet serches. Rather than pinching what looks like sprung tabs you just have to literally force it off from underneith and not break it - great.
Image

Ignore the stray contact pick-up, lots of gears inside!
Image

This wheel is not in properly, if you look at the collars at each side of the axle they are too close in to properly fit into the 'U' shaped 'half pipe' axle holder/bush thingy. (I'm brilliant at describing things arn't I!?) this was only on 2 wheels and to sure it I gently filed a smidge off the half pipe things, wasn't complicated, just enough to shave about 0.3 of a mm or so. (rough guess) After which they fit in perfectly. Again, this was only on a couple. I did check the back to backs with a Exactoscale block and the wheelset was a tad tight, I eased it out but still had to trim the bogey body.
Image

00 wheels removed and contacts bent out a bit (refer to the above problem, bend them more than nessasary for the boget sides that pull away move them when replaced)
Image

P4 wheels literally 'dropped in', they don't call them drop in wheel sets for nothing! And after replace the keeper plate by pushing at various angles. Job done, I tested it on my bit of stray C&L track it ran perfect, went round a curve I bent that must have been no more than 15 or so inches radius, I kid you not.
Image


Hope that's helped somebody. :)

Apart from my problems that you shouldn't have had it was well easy. First P4 conversion successfull. [Tick]

;)
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
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randallb
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Re: Converting the Heljan Class 35 'Hymek' to P4

Postby randallb » Fri May 04, 2012 12:58 pm

Nice one!!

I haven't got to the point of sorting out an engine - track for me next, but i enjoyed the outcome. :D
Randall

Knuckles
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Re: Converting the Heljan Class 35 'Hymek' to P4

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 04, 2012 5:09 pm

Thanks, I don't really have a proper test track yet being early days, but when I ran it on that flexible bit of C&L it was happy, and at tight curves. I also ran it through that turnout I built using the shunting finger and it seemed happy there too, but I guess I will never know fully until it's running around a layout.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

craig_whilding
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Re: Converting the Heljan Class 35 'Hymek' to P4

Postby craig_whilding » Fri May 04, 2012 5:31 pm

The idea of the wheels being in the 'wrong way' is duff gen when the axle is isolated from both wheels on the Ultrascales and the Heljan model doesn't do any pickup through the axle anyway.

What is interesting is that your Ultrascale wheels don't have a full metal back, only the tyre when I thought most of the conversions had metal over most of the rear apart from the insulating muff in the centre.

Glad it works though now and just think what fun you can have in the future with steam valve gear ;).

Knuckles
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Re: Converting the Heljan Class 35 'Hymek' to P4

Postby Knuckles » Fri May 04, 2012 7:20 pm

Oh yes, metal spegetti. :geek: I'm hoping I can avoid that and just use RTR valve gear. Or would that be too easy?

I'm interested in the Brass Masters EasiChas thingy for a Gresley A1/3 you see. *Cough*Gordon*Cough*

Also something for Fury but I think there I'll have no choice but to build it myself somehow. Anyone know how to get a working valve spindle and radius rod? :D I've seen it done.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
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download/file.php?id=19320

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Horsetan
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Re: Converting the Heljan Class 35 'Hymek' to P4

Postby Horsetan » Mon May 07, 2012 6:20 pm

Knuckles wrote:....Anyone know how to get a working valve spindle and radius rod? :D I've seen it done.


You need to position your radius rod so that the back end of it's connected to the lower or upper quadrant of the expansion link / die-block, depending on whether you want to represent forward or reverse gear.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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Andy W
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Re: Converting the Heljan Class 35 'Hymek' to P4

Postby Andy W » Mon May 07, 2012 9:05 pm

"depending on whether you want to represent forward or reverse gear" I think I saw a few years ago a way to make this change - but maybe I was dreaming? If not is it best to set it in mid position?
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Horsetan
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Re: Converting the Heljan Class 35 'Hymek' to P4

Postby Horsetan » Tue May 08, 2012 10:21 am

Ealing wrote:"depending on whether you want to represent forward or reverse gear" I think I saw a few years ago a way to make this change - but maybe I was dreaming? If not is it best to set it in mid position?


OT, but if you've gone to the trouble of making the motion look right, why not see if you can make it "work"? 7mm people have the advantage of more space so they can put in servos to control the reversing gear. In 4mm scale, Mike Sharman suggested using a peg-and-bar "clutch" arrangement, making use of the final drive gear to work the reversing gear before the clutch engaged and the model moved off. He drew a diagram of this in his book on building model locomotives; I'll see if I can dig it up, but it was most ingenious.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Knuckles
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Re: Converting the Heljan Class 35 'Hymek' to P4

Postby Knuckles » Tue May 08, 2012 4:16 pm

Well, I'm intereested already. I've never built valve gear so maybe I'm asking too much, but if I do bother my arse to build it I might as well try to do it well. Having extra motion would be a real boon. :)
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

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Horsetan
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Re: Converting the Heljan Class 35 'Hymek' to P4

Postby Horsetan » Tue May 08, 2012 5:00 pm

Knuckles wrote:Well, I'm interested already.


Have sent you a PM. ;)
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Knuckles
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Re: Converting the Heljan Class 35 'Hymek' to P4

Postby Knuckles » Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:38 pm

Blimey, has it been over a year already?

Ok, well, I have a small update. Nothing mind blowing.

I've rebranded the numbers to D3 in nickel silver by Fox-Transfers.

Added all the buffer beam detail to both sides. Ignored the plastic screw link and forced a Hornby semi working one in instead. I had to drill a hole, file the hole and also file the stub on the coupling to complete the join.

I've also fitted the letters to the front, but they look cack because I cannot put them in neatly to save my life.

A blackened dingham has been fitted to the back, but I had to drill a hole through the metal chassis to accept it. I think this means I won't be able to get inside the model unless I remove it, but the good news is I have it retained by a simple bend, so if there is a problem I'll just bend it back, if I do make a pigs ear of things then I'll have to make a new coupling.

Image

Image
Like I say, nothing mind blowing.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320


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