SR N class 1406

[nberrington]

I am hoping one of the Southern buffs can help me here. I have an older model of the Bachmann N class in 00. It was a great runner back in my 00 days, and I'm thinking of giving her some new legs in a more appropriate gauge.

Bachmann have depicted 1406 in Maunsell lined green, sans smoke deflectors with a slope sided tender.

The reference book I have (Ian Sixsmith) shows several photos of 1406 with smoke deflectors. According to the text, it seems to have "lined green smoke deflectors". Am I reading this correctly? The smoke defectors are not black?

[zebedeesknees]

I am hoping one of the Southern buffs can help me here. I have an older model of the Bachmann N class in 00. It was a great runner back in my 00 days, and I'm thinking of giving her some new legs in a more appropriate gauge.

Bachmann have depicted 1406 in Maunsell lined green, sans smoke deflectors with a slope sided tender.

The reference book I have (Ian Sixsmith) shows several photos of 1406 with smoke deflectors. According to the text, it seems to have "lined green smoke deflectors". Am I reading this correctly? The smoke defectors are not black?

I suspect that there is a comma missing between 'green' and 'smoke'..

Ted.

[Philip Hall]

I think the book was quite correct. Clearly in many photographs in the book are pictures of engines in olive green and lined, with lined smoke deflectors. That lining style would not have appeared on a black deflector on a green engine.

On page 55 of 'Maunsell Moguls' by Peter H Swift (the gent from Derby, not Guildford) it says "when smoke deflectors were first fitted, Ashford painted them green on the Moguls until early 1938...)

I didn't know they were green at all in early years. Certainly they were (sometimes) malachite later on.

Philip

[bécasse]

Smoke deflectors, once fitted to N class locos (1406 was the last to be built without them), were painted the main body colour, be it Maunsell green, wartime black or malachite, always without the deflectors themselves being lined.
In the absence of colour photos, I can't be absolutely certain that this applied to the largely-hidden inner sides of the deflectors, but I suspect it did.

[Philip Hall]

I think photographs do show lining on deflectors, only though on olive green or malachite. Schools and Arthurs often had a panel of green down to footplate level, lined around the edge, with black beneath.

Philip

[Noel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SECR_N_class#/media/File:N_class_1412_breakdown_train.jpg. 1850 when fitted with Marshall valve gear is also accessible via the right arrow.

[bécasse]

Having written what I did above I began to have doubts and started looking at photos, almost all of which are b/w of course, and I am afraid that the waters seem rather muddier than I had originally thought.

Firstly locos repainted into the pre-war "Sunshine" malachite do seem to have had black smoke deflectors but I have no idea whether they included 1406. Even before that some locos had their smokebox, smokebox door and deflectors painted matt black - and because it is matt it can be detected in photos. However other locos in Maunsell livery had gloss painted deflectors and I reckon these had to have been green - I could detect no indication that it was lined though and the SR lining was quire distinctive.

[John Palmer]

There is certainly photographic evidence of some N Class locomotives carrying lining upon the smoke deflectors. A good example is to be found at https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/SRSteam/19131922-SECR-Richard-Maunsell/SECR-9And-later-SR-Richard-Maunsell-N-Class/i-WpcZTbx/A, showing No.1814 at Bricklayers Arms. Photographs giving a clear indication of the colour applied to Ns' deflectors during the Bulleid era seem to be uncommon, and for the livery carried during Maunsell's time matters are made more difficult by the frequent indistinguishability of black from olive green in monochrome pictures. However, in the linked picture of No.1814 the part of the deflector lying outside the lining does appear to me to be darker than the part within, which I consequently take to be olive green in colour.

Pre-war colour photographs of N Class representatives also seem to be rare: the only one I have come across was at https://www.flickr.com/photos/swift-valley/4168841565/in/album-72157622769148804/. This shows No. 1812 near Norwood Jc in May 1939, so within the Bulleid period. However, the tender is carrying 'SOUTHERN' in pre-'Sunshine' serif characters so must presumably still be in olive green livery. It seems clear to me that in this picture the smoke deflectors are black (and presumably unlined). Brian Haresnape's “Railway Liveries 1923- 1947” indicates that it was the Southern Railway's intention that its secondary passenger locomotive should receive the malachite green livery, but this was prevented by paint shortages (latterly, I guess, also by wartime austerity), so whether any Ns actually achieved malachite livery I've been unable to discover.

All of which suggests to me that the safe course of action is: “find a locomotive photograph clearly showing its livery in the period you are representing – then make that locomotive the subject of your model.”

[nberrington]

Thank you John - that is what prompted my question. There are several pictures of 1406 with what would appear to be lined smoke deflectors, but contradictory writings from several people that it had line at all. Mostly what I’d seen in review articles in the model railway press.

Thus it was my intention to change the appearance of the Bachmann model. The language on the book did have me confused as to the colour scheme, which to my eye certainly didn’t look black and did look to be lined.

[Geoff]

One important omission from the non-BR Bachmann N's is that of snifting valves. The Hornby pre-BR Maunsell locos do have them. Just an extra point to consider if you really want to be accurate. Is there a commercial casting that could be used?

[Philip Hall]

I have some nice little turnings, discovered after I'd done some on the Unimat! They are fairly simple to do with a scrap of rod in a drill and a file. However, I also think Markits do them, but I might be wrong...

Philip

[Philip Hall]

I've just looked and Markits do snifting valves, although they don't look much like the ones I turned up or already have!

Philip

[Hardwicke]

I've just looked and Markits do snifting valves, although they don't look much like the ones I turned up or already have!

Philip

Experience has shown Markits bits rarely match what they are meant to depict. Beautifully made though.

[Horsetan]

Experience has shown Markits bits rarely match what they are meant to depict. Beautifully made though.

Mostly overscale, too.