Hornby Rebuilt Light Pacific

[Hardwicke]

I recently purchased a WC. No I haven't been to any well known bathroom or DIY showrooms, but a West Country loco.
I've carefully opened it to preserve the mint box and although it jerked a bit and the motor tried to move it didn't do much more. I have an ancient power supply. It's shown as DCC Ready but I'm not sure if it's fitted.
It has horrible unflanged steamroller wheels on the pony and the speedo crank would never be able to turn: see the photo.

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Nevermind as the wheels will come out anyway.
Other than that it's quite nice. Hornby really could do better and their present "make everything diecast", pushes me back towards kits. Just as Ultrascale are selling off their gear cutting equipment...

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[Philip Hall]

Your speedo crank looks to have had a rough shunt in transit.

I think that the unflanged pony truck wheels are very useful for P4, given that our flanges are little more than turning burrs and hardly visible. The width of the wheels is not noticeable from the side and provided they just touch the rails and the radius is not too small work quite well. However, on the BR 'Clan' that I'm doing it does seem possible to alter the pony truck so that it can swivel a little, which is my Plan B. I have an unrebuilt West Country and Merchant Navy which use the same design. I am looking at using the (very nice) Hornby wheels on them with Ultrascale tyres. Both of these run beautifully out of the box.

Philip

[Hardwicke]

The body is off and the motor struggles to move. When it does it grinds the gears and the wheels hardly move. Seems to be a reported common problem in the Other Place. The question now is how do I release the motor and gear cradle? The instruction sheet doesn't say.

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[Hardwicke]

Got it open (slightly)
The gear wheel is cracked.

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Do Ultrascale make a replacement?

[David Knight]

I would think that under the circumstances Hornby should be providing you with the gear mounted on a new wheel set for no charge.

Cheers,

David

[Philip Hall]

I don’t think Ultrascale make a replacement for the intermediate drive gear, and I’ve not come across that problem before. I wound hope that Hornby or the various spares suppliers wound be able to help. That gear is likely to be common to many models.

However, given that you can get at the gear and shaft it might be possible to glue and pin the gear together around and into the shaft. I have a ‘powder and cyano’ glue which should work. I’ll have a look later to see what it’s called.

Why such a gear should actually crack in the first place is a quality issue.

Philip

[davebradwell]

Surely if the crack goes right to the edge of the gear it will affect the pitch of the 2 teeth bridging the gap. I would expect this to give the thing a bit of a limp at the very least. Is this what is stopping the motor revolving or are there more horrors within. Surely Hornby should have spares even if they grumble about a freebie.

Would advise against trying to glue it.

DaveB

[Philip Hall]

I would only glue the gear provided that the crack can be tightly drawn together with pins or wires so that the pitch is unaffected. A replacement is preferable of course. Ultrascale are still taking orders until the end of the year and might make one for you.

The adhesive I mentioned is Q - Bond, picture below. There are two powders, for different materials, and glue is dropped on the powder which then solidifies around the joint.

Dismantling the chassis can be assisted by the relative Hornby service sheet (try Lendons).

Philip

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[davebradwell]

I think, Phillip, if he were to try and glue this gear it would only be possible off the shaft as it's likely an excessive press-fit that's caused the splitting and which will continue to prevent the teeth being brought together. Think I'd use a very thinn glue, too. The interference could then be eased before re-fitting. Undersize hole could explain why it seems to be a widespread problem.

DaveB

[buckie5507]

Taken from the West Country/Battle of Britain service sheet

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The part in question is listed as a spare part - X8849 OO GAUGE GEAR SET MERCHANT NAVY

Jonathan

[DougN]

I was discussing this very issue yesterday. The gears are available from the likes of: New modellers shop, lendons of Cardiff, and Peters Spares. Though the last won't post over seas, there is some excuse about motor cycle parts not arriving.. hence a minimum postage charge of 50 quid! (It's one of those things which results in the over seas modellers not dealing with some suppliers... even though we want too)

Hornby spares are in limited availablity, you just have to go searching.

[Philip Hall]

Yes Dave, I agree about the gear probably being a tight fit and needing easing on the shaft. I only suggested this as a last resort in the event of non availability of replacement. Hornby gears are a harder plastic than, say, Bachmann, which allows a bit of 'give'. The spur gears are sometimes quite thin but here seems to be a decent thickness. I wouldn't be surprised if the gear shaft was splined as well which possibly might not help. The Q-Bond I suggested is a thin cyano and the powder allows reinforcement around the joint, but it's not an easy fix.

I suspected that this intermediate gear was not unique to the West Country, so spares should be available. I have three engines of this design in the 'to do' pile for 'Mellstock' so I might take the precaution of laying in stock as insurance. Thanks to Michael for drawing attention to the problem.

Philip

[Philip Hall]

Just looked at Lendons website, and that code relates to two different gear sets, with either 21T or 26T gears! So a bit of counting will be needed, as well as patience as they are on pre-order at the moment.

Philip

[Hardwicke]

Just looked at Lendons website, and that code relates to two different gear sets, with either 21T or 26T gears! So a bit of counting will be needed, as well as patience as they are on pre-order at the moment.

Philip

Ultrascale produce a 21 Tooth pinion gear wheel. 1/8 and 2mm bore

[Hardwicke]

Thaby for all the info everyone. Although I bought the loco with the description "I believe it has never been taken out of it's box" it clearly has as the lamp bracket on the smokebox top light is broken off and only one instruction sheet is in there. Ho hum.
The motor is free now.
Gear wheel removed but is 25 toothed !

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Wheels still stick. Possibly a quartering problem. Payday soon so Gibson valve gear and new wheels. Sharman's have no more P4 WC wheels (I bought the last two axles and intend to turn the 00 ones down)

[davebradwell]

It's a helical gear of course to mate with the worm but it's troubling that the crack has stayed open when shaft removed. Surprisingly it runs right across the large boss. Best not to get excited about wheels until this can be sorted permanently. Not a good look for Hornby.

DaveB

[Edward45]

This type of "Damage" is apparently a regular occurrence. See 00bill on YouTube as he has just replaced a similar part on a Hornby Britannia.

[Hardwicke]

I took the wheels out again yesterday and after a lot of turning back and forth by hand and repeatedly reseating them the tight spot seemed to go.

[Enigma]

Interesting to see that the pony wheels on the instruction sheet appear to be flanged.

Split gears are a common problem on older Proto2000 American locos. It seems to occur with age, possibly shrinkage rather than a 'large' axle? I replaced mine with Athearn axles complete with gear.

[Tony Wilkins]

I have just found the same problem with a split drive gear on a Hornby Sentinel loco and replaced it with one from a spare loco.
Regards
Tony.

[davebradwell]

It's probably still an age embrittlement process with the press-fit providing the force to finish the job. Cheap material and/or poor moulding practices with various questions about the press fit. All the more reason to get some proper ones from Ultrascale and Loctite them onto a plain shaft with no interference. This example is very new so an unlikely candidate unless Hornby found a bag of them in a corner of the stores. Not good news that the problem may be more widespread - I'll stick with my High Levels in my own chassis.

DaveB

[Hardwicke]

All the more reason to get some proper ones from Ultrascale and Loctite them onto a plain shaft with no interference.

DaveB

I'd love to but the idler shaft is knurled. But a complete replacement of both gears might be the only way. Unfortunately Ultrascale don't make the correct size.

[davebradwell]

He might if you asked but it will probably cost - unless you can persuade him it's a widespread problem. I can't see how else you're going to get one of these locos running if all gears are dud and will probably fail eventually. Back to gluing and sticking to a plain shaft but you'll have to thoroughly degrease it first.

DaveB

[Edward45]

This problem is indeed fairly prevalent which raise the question of how many models are actually purchased new with split or partly split gears. These gears are so inaccessible that it is impossible to examine without dismantling; possibly invalidating any guarantee. Thus a "Catch 22" situation. Whilst not being any form of engineer, I do see this as primarily an issue of forcing a shaft into an undersize hole.

[Hardwicke]

I'll measure the gear.
I'd guess the unrebuilt locos have the same problem or will in time. I have two.
The present dud model might be getting swapped.