LSWR B4 0-4-0T

spencerman

LSWR B4 0-4-0T

Postby spencerman » Mon May 24, 2010 8:39 pm

I have a lovely little model of this loco - Normandy - as preserved that kind of thing. It is all brass and 00. I believe
that it is a McGeowan model, not a Falcon Brassworks model.

I have aquired a modern etched chassis for it suitable for P4, however there seem to be no wheels available.
The correct wheels would appear to be 3ft 9.75inches 10 spoke according to the Mike Sharman reference bible, and the LSWR web site,
with in line crankpin boss. We all had a giggle at the EM show with the quoted 9.75 inches, but there you go.
Alan Gibson has a wheel which is 3ft 8inches Manning Wardle IL, but when offered up to the loco to compare it looked far too
small - I suppose even allowing for the tyre wear theory when you are talking such small wheels it makes a fair bit of difference.
I suspect I shall have to compromise in the end.
My question is:-
Is it possible to reprofile the existing wheels for P4, and can anyone suggest someone who might undertake it?

regards
Philip

Philip Hall
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Re: LSWR B4 0-4-0T

Postby Philip Hall » Mon May 24, 2010 9:31 pm

If it's brass it's almost certainly the Falcon (ex Jidenco) kit. I believe the McGowan kit was whitemetal. Not sure if Jim McGeowan (Connoisseur) did a B4. This wasn't at all bad for its day (it was my first properly working P4 loco) but the cab roof was the wrong profile as it came and had to be reduced in height. After I'd built it.

Sharman did the right wheel, which in those days of course you could get. If the wheels you have on it now are Sharman, it's certainly possible (with great care) to re-profile them, as Mike used the same tyre width for P4 as for EM/00, and the centres were very securely moulded into the tyres. This excess of width (for P4) was fine for roadholding but gave problems with crankpins missing the crossheads by a few thou and the same kind of clearance between the steps and crossheads. My solution was to replace the crossheads with ones from shim brass; you couldn't see them most of the time behind the steps anyway. If someone can turn then down for you then they could possibly have a go at the width as well, but there's still the crankpin bosses to think of.

As for who to do it, you need a man with a good 1/8" collet for his lathe and a P4 tyre tool. Tim Shackleton wrote an article on the GER Decapod in a long past MRJ, and a friend of his (was it Andrew Cooper, a watchmaker?) did some work on the Sharman wheels for him, and as far as I remember had offered to quote for similar work. Tim only had his wheels reduced in width, of course, not re-profiled.

If the wheels you have are Romford then possibly none of this is much help to you! However, I do know that Brian Self and Chris McCarthy are building a pair of B4s between them and have had just this problem with wheels. They might be able to help you.

Good Luck!

Philip

spencerman

Re: LSWR B4 0-4-0T

Postby spencerman » Tue May 25, 2010 8:29 am

Thanks for your Information, Philip.

Briefly the wheels are not Romford - no special split drive wheel nut apparent, straight slot only.
The wheels do seem to have a good margin of space between the tyres and the plastic wheel mouldings.
So my money is on Sharman 00 wheels. I shall try and contact the gentlemen mentioned. I did ask Ultrascale
if to reprofile them was possible, and they said no chance!!
best regards
Philip

nberrington
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Re: LSWR B4 0-4-0T

Postby nberrington » Tue May 25, 2010 12:41 pm

Let us know how you make out, as I too have one of these beasties in the cupboard. 9One of many yet to be built Falcon kits)

Neil

Philip Hall
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Re: LSWR B4 0-4-0T

Postby Philip Hall » Tue May 25, 2010 1:25 pm

Hi Philip

If the wheels have a straight slot in the axles I think they may well be K's. Another feature of some of these was that the front of the tyre had a slight bevel to it, and the crankpin would have been pushed in from the rear. Sharman's have the pin moulded in and it would not be visible from the rear. If they are K's they had a 'D' moulded recess in the wheel which fitted over a machined axle end. The screw held them in place, but not at all well, and quartering could go all over the place. They were a fair bit flexible as well; not sure if the tyres were locked onto the centres and therefore probably not a good idea to try turning them!

If you could post a picture I can hopefully confirm all this for you.

Philip

spencerman

Re: LSWR B4 0-4-0T

Postby spencerman » Wed May 26, 2010 12:39 am

Thanks Philip
When I get a moment not cooking or washing up I will try and take a piccy,
however I have not yet dismantled the loco's feet so I will come back.

However I have some interesting research which follows:-

I have spoken to David Stapleton – The Mike Sharman wheels owner.
He said call in a month or write, he hates e-mails! Say 23 June 2010.
He was very friendly and seemed quite happy with my call.

He will look at making some P4 wheels for the LSWR B4 0-4-0T
3ft 9 3/4in 10 spoke boss in line.

He says the Mike Sharman catalogue lists a wheel S96 code A=P4.
I believe that this is 3 ft 9in. But that would seem ok to me!
Apparently Mike Sharman was the only wheel provider that
made a suitable wheel.
However I am not sure of the prototype equivalent that he said... sorry!

He will be amenable to do some of these but in a month or so, as he is
in the process of moving Precision Paints (his Son’s business) into
an industrial unit next door in Wickford.

So we should perhaps make a list of takers. No deals are done yet,
only when everyone is happy with the idea.
I would be quite happy to send off an order when we know the price,
and the exact spec.

This could be a lot of fun, witha little cost involved - if it is too much
we shall have to think again.

best regards
to all
Philip

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: LSWR B4 0-4-0T

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Wed May 26, 2010 9:34 am

London Road Models has a good relationship with David Stapleton, who produces small batches of 7' drivers (and a couple of other sizes) to suit various LRM kits where there is nothing else available.

John Redrup recently had a conversation with David S suggesting that 3' 9" is a very good diameter wheel to produce (I think that machining the tyres has been the biggest difficulty recently). It sounds as though David may have organised some tyres and so production of what you need may well now be possible.

Hopefully moving PP Paints into the adjacent unit will combine the Stapleton's talents at one site and we may therefore see more Sharman wheels available.

Jol

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Andy W
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Re: LSWR B4 0-4-0T

Postby Andy W » Wed May 26, 2010 11:43 am

I think on returning to the hobby over the last year, after a break of 12 years or so, the most striking change I've found has been the availability of wheels. Now, when planning on building a loco, the first step before buying a kit or finding drawings, is to check the availability of the round things underneath. We were spoilt in days of yore. There seemed to be something available for just about any prototype.

The second big change has been the demise of the model shop - let alone the railway model shop. Happy days.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

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Andy W
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Re: LSWR B4 0-4-0T

Postby Andy W » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:19 pm

"we may therefore see more Sharman wheels available." Does anyone know if David Stapleton is still looking at issuing more of the Sharman range?
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

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Mike Garwood
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Re: LSWR B4 0-4-0T

Postby Mike Garwood » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:21 pm

From the discussion on another forum I think we have seen the last of Sharman wheels. As I understand the situation...the Stapleton's have no intention of 're-issuing ' these wheels. Sad but there you are. We had best support the trade that's out there...going, going...

Mike
(must be a black Monday :( )


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