Firebox flicker, is it a modelling myth?

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 2185
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Firebox flicker, is it a modelling myth?

Postby jim s-w » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:02 pm

The RTR guys are starting to mess with flickering fireboxes these days (ok they've dabbled before) but is this actually a complete modellers myth?

My limited experience of peering into cabs on the SVR it seems to be more of a raging inferno that produces a strong, constant light but is that how things were?
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

User avatar
Horsetan
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:24 am

Re: Firebox flicker, is it a modelling myth?

Postby Horsetan » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:28 pm

I thought this was the type of thing that showed up better once the sun was setting. In daylight conditions, you'd not see much of it unless you were in the cab...
That would be an ecumenical matter.

davebradwell
Posts: 1173
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Re: Firebox flicker, is it a modelling myth?

Postby davebradwell » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:34 pm

A post Christmas trip to the Keighley and Worth suggests you need the sun down plus leaking steam in the cab to get the full benefit beyond the cab. I believe that with very heavy slow slogging each chuff could be seen to brighten the fire but you'd need a fair sound system to get the full effect.

DaveB

Porcy Mane
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:55 pm

Re: Firebox flicker, is it a modelling myth?

Postby Porcy Mane » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:59 pm

jim s-w wrote:The RTR guys are starting to mess with flickering fireboxes these days (ok they've dabbled before) but is this actually a complete modellers myth?


Something me and mates have discussed at length. We came to the conclusion that on the prototype with , firebox illumination was something that was quite noticeable. Usually quite constant in illuminating the crew and filling the cab but we have seen flicker too. Also depending on how hot the fire was the colour temperature of the lighting can vary enormously.

I have a Bachmann J72 with fire hole illumination. It uses two leds. One Led is yellow/white the other, red. On DCC I have the separate LEDs set up on different functions, the white when activated illuminates constantly (but with reduced intensity) and the red, also with reduced intensity and set up to flicker, but only to illuminate in conjunction with the yellow led. Those that drive steam on preserved railways and have seen the J72 in action have said it replicates the real thing quite well. I have no idea how these leds would function and look under DC control.

This video shows hopefully shows a bit of flicker in the cab, how the firebox glow also illuminates the exhaust and how the glow abruptly disappears when the firehole door is closed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etE1u-Nu3wk

46115Hadrian009copy-sm.jpg


Just the thing for wet winters night on Brettel Road.

P
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

davebradwell
Posts: 1173
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Re: Firebox flicker, is it a modelling myth?

Postby davebradwell » Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:19 pm

Surely the firehole door would have to be open, though. In the north-east and ECML they used to fire through the air flap and not routinely open the door so presumably a lesser effect. Certainly earlier in the day during my Keighley trip there were glowing times with door open. Yer tubes will leak, man!

DaveB

Porcy Mane
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:55 pm

Re: Firebox flicker, is it a modelling myth?

Postby Porcy Mane » Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:36 pm

davebradwell wrote:Surely the firehole door would have to be open, though.


Aye, yer reet. N' there's always a bit of glow leaks past the flap. I'm trying to replicate that on one of my Q6's. I guess Rick, Duncs and I spend way too much time standing lineside playing and watching trains. I've just been informed another trip oot is planned for tomorrow.

davebradwell wrote:Yer tubes will leak, man!


They've been like that for decades. (Faulty flap!)

davebradwell
Posts: 1173
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Re: Firebox flicker, is it a modelling myth?

Postby davebradwell » Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:25 am

......but NER locos had the chip-fryer arrangement round the firedoor to reduce escaping glare. It's all a long time ago - I think you might see the fire sometimes but surely there'd have to be something funny going on to light up the whole cab in daytime. Gateshead did specialise in big fires, though. They'd sometimes get a huge lump of coal that would need the door opening and both crew to lift it in. Opening the door seemed to be a very rare event to be talked about for years after!

Didn't some railways introduce black-out measures during wartime so that's perhaps a point but it doesn't solve the day/night issue.

DaveB

User avatar
CDGFife
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:37 pm

Re: Firebox flicker, is it a modelling myth?

Postby CDGFife » Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:44 am

A couple of my Cadhay locos have firebox LED added. With DCC sound, we have programmed the LED to light up only when the coal shovelling noise is activated i.e. firehole door open. Quite easily programmable with Decoderpro or if you have a Nigel Cliffe!
CDG

MarcD
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:49 am

Re: Firebox flicker, is it a modelling myth?

Postby MarcD » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:16 pm

I have some fitted to my 7mm Terriers it's very effective once I cut the lights but virtually impossible to see when they are running at an exhibition. The same goes for the other lights on buildings etc. Don't think I will be fitting them to my other stock regardless of the scale.
Marc
www.pregroupingrailways.com for everything built before 1923

nigelcliffe
Posts: 747
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:31 am

Re: Firebox flicker, is it a modelling myth?

Postby nigelcliffe » Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:09 pm

CDGFife wrote:A couple of my Cadhay locos have firebox LED added. With DCC sound, we have programmed the LED to light up only when the coal shovelling noise is activated i.e. firehole door open. Quite easily programmable with Decoderpro or if you have a Nigel Cliffe!
CDG


Or the blower is operated. Or both firebox open and blower on together is even brighter should someone be trying to cook the crew.....


"a Nigel Cliffe"


Return to “Steam Locomotives”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 0 guests