RTR Conversions.

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steve howe
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby steve howe » Thu Nov 10, 2022 5:42 pm

Nice work indeed, may I ask is that the original Bachmann livery, and whose wheels did you use?

Cheers
Steve

triumph3
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby triumph3 » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:56 am

Steve, yes it is the original Bachmann livery and very nice it is too. The only thing I would add is I would re place the boiler bands with Fox transfers which I have done on some of myJubilees. The wheels are Alan Gibson, both the drivers, bogie and tender wheels. I had started building a High Level tender chassis but when the loco ran on Barrow Rd the tender was fine with just replacement P4 wheels, so the High Level tender chassis sits half built in its box! The coupling rods are the original Bachmann ones bushed with the Alan Gibson parts.
I can not recommend highly enough converting the latest RTR models, sometimes as is or with added details. I am now on my second Coal Tank ( with a third one waiting) and am revisiting the Bachmann 08 ( posted earlier in this thread) as the chassis is fine with the Ultrascale wheels and Brassmasters coupling rods. My friend Tony Wilkins has kindly done an 08 body swap so I can more accurately model a particular loco.

David

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steve howe
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby steve howe » Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:44 am

Thanks David,

I have a Hornby Hall to convert as (I don't think) Bachmann do an earlier Hall and the modified one is too late for my period. Superb model though! :thumb

Steve

triumph3
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby triumph3 » Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:40 pm

Another really nice RTR model is the Bachmann 3F 0-6-0 which can be converted just by replacing the wheels (Robin Whittle has done this with both 3Fs and 4Fs on his layout). However I took a different route and fitted an EasyChas chassis and replaced the splashers (with the Brassmasters etch). One upgrade I did decide to go for was that the RTR tender chassis have very "thin" axle boxes and springs so for this model I used a Brassmasters tender chassis kit which replaces the footplate and allows the use of lost wax springs and axle boxes from Alan Gibson.
This photo compares the Bachmann underframe and the replacement I made up.
100_0871.JPG

100_0870.JPG

100_0874.JPG

100_0872.JPG


The last photo shows the current state of the loco, renumbered and complete with replacement splashers and the loco chassis and tender chassis weathered.
To be honest I am not sure the replacement splashers are worth the extra effort.

David
IMG_4811 (2).JPG
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Philip Hall
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:02 pm

Some time ago I did a 3F and a 4F with replacement Brassmasters splashers and I share your views. It was a Dickens of a fiddle to cut away the existing splashers tidily and there is no way I'd do it again. They are very little different and a tidy job is much better than a slightly more accurate but less tidy job.

Philip

John Palmer
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby John Palmer » Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:42 am

I too currently have a No.3 Goods on the stocks that comprises Bachmann upperworks with Brassmasters Easichas below. As I'm notorious for my Somerset & Dorset affiliation I'd better refer to it as a Bulldog, the name by which it was known to its crews. I've attached a couple of pictures showing the current state of the tender.
005 (cropped).jpg
First is a shot of the underside, showing how I've adapted the Brassmasters suspension by incorporation of current collecting bearings that are insulated from the chassis by Delrin muffs. This avoids the need for insulating frames from each other and makes it possible to construct a set of brake rigging that is soldered throughout.
009 (cropped).jpg
Amongst other things the second picture shows the substituted axlebox/spring castings which I agree are a distinct improvement on the original Bachmann mouldings, although I think the designers missed an opportunity to exploit the lost wax casting process by omitting the forking of the spring trunnions; from this angle they look a bit too solid. I hope the picture also helps to show the improvement in appearance that results from substituting etched coal fenders for the original mouldings. The two 'Mickey Mouse' ears protruding from the top of the bulkhead and used to keep fireirons in place are also replacements. I annealed some brass wire and administered two hearty bashes with suitable punch to form the rounded ears before filing to final shape. Also to be seen are the 'H' frame found on 43204's tender as a support for fireirons, custom etched number and capacity plates, and some particularly fiddly lamp irons whose lamp rests had to follow the prototype by being elevated a couple of inches above the running plate.

I did acquire a set of etched splashers with a view to replacing those on the Bachmann moulding, but the comments made here about the problems of getting a satisfactory finished appearance chime with my own experience when replacing the splashers on an Airfix No.4 Goods. For my money, the original Airfix splashers are so vastly oversize as to make their replacement essential, but as Philip says the Bachmann splashers are not greatly oversize, so I'm now quite strongly inclined to leave well alone.
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Philip Hall
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:22 am

The problem with the replacement splashers is that after you've removed the Bachmann ones you're left with a great hole to plug which the replacements don't fully cover. At least that's what happened to me. I might have done it
the wrong way, incompetence etc., etc....

Philip
Last edited by Philip Hall on Sat Feb 11, 2023 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

triumph3
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby triumph3 » Sat Nov 19, 2022 2:45 pm

Another RTR model worth considering is the Hornby Black 5. His is my version which I have re numbered and fitted a double chimney. Unfortunatly for me the loco has a part welded tender which not only has rivets, but also different axleoxes. So I have some etches from Comet to fit over the tender sides as well as some replacement axle boxes.
Again the loco has the wheels swapped and I have built an etched masokits bogie which has springing in it. The tender has a straight swop of the wheels.

Renumbered and double chimmney (2).JPG


David
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triumph3
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby triumph3 » Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:25 pm

To complete the photos of 6994 here is the latest after a light weathering.
IMG_4823 (2).JPG

David
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triumph3
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby triumph3 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:03 pm

Another RTR model worth considering for conversion is the Bachmann Ivatt Class 2-6-0 tender engine. I have have a Comet kit built to P4 but the advent of the Bachmann version led me to buy one of those as well. The tender has a Lanarkshire Models tender chassis kit and the loco conversion is just a straight wheel swap with Gibson spacer bearings. The bogie is the original Bachmann one.
I have changed the loco number to a loco allocated to Bescot and was used on the Divisional Inspection saloon (I have a photo of it working through my location) and have also replaced the chimney for a lost wax one (cant remember whose!) but one from a Comet kit will do just as well. I repainted the smokebox.
Still lots to do, fit the steps on the loco, fit cab doors, and the trunking alongside the boiler on the drivers side is a bit anaemic and does not join into the ejector on the side of the smokebox so will need replacing.
IMG_4946 (2).JPG

As a comparison I have taken a photo comparing to the Comet kit.
IMG_4949 (2).JPG

One thing about taking photos of models you notice things that dont leap out to the eye. The Comet kit body is not sitting down on the frames!

David
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barrowroad
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby barrowroad » Fri Feb 10, 2023 6:04 pm

Nice work on the conversion David, what crankpins have you used with the Gibson wheels especially on the centre driver with the crank?

Robin

triumph3
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby triumph3 » Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:11 pm

Robin,
I had a bush made up for the centre axle that fitted over the Gibson crankpin and fitted inside the Bachmann connecting rod.

David

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android
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby android » Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:49 pm

triumph3 wrote:Robin,
I had a bush made up for the centre axle that fitted over the Gibson crankpin and fitted inside the Bachmann connecting rod.

David

I have converted locos without external valve gear but none with. I have a Hornby Schools sitting in bits with me nervously waiting to take the plunge; so how do you "have a bush made up," and how does that help fit the crank?!
Naive of Sussex

Terry Bendall
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby Terry Bendall » Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:26 am

android wrote:so how do you "have a bush made up,


In engineering terms a bush is in effect a piece of tube, probably made in the lathe. Scalefour News 157, pages 4 - 8 show the process. Not difficult to do apart from the small matter of having a lathe or knowing a friend with one. The internal diameter of the bush will slide over the crank pin and the outside diameter will fit into the hole in the crank. If you are lucky you may be able to find a pice of tube the correct size or with an internal bore that can be enlarged with a drill.

Terry Bendall

Philip Hall
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:57 am

I am afraid that I have for many years not employed elegant solutions like this but merely soldered the return crank to the crankpin. I tap the return crank 14BA or solder a 14BA nut into the RTR crank, wind it on and then secure with a quick dab of solder. I always use a brass 14BA screw for a crankpin that is going to take a return crank because it takes solder better, and carefully blacken the back of the crank and the outer surfaces of the crankpin bush. The crankpin itself is secured at the back of the wheel with a nickel silver pin drilled at 45° through the slot in the screw to prevent the crankpin revolving.

It is quite easy to remove a return crank as the joint can be quickly (but carefully) warmed up again and the crank twisted off. I've done many RTR conversions like this (including two Schools, four more to come one day!)

Philip

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android
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby android » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:40 am

Philip Hall wrote:I am afraid that I have for many years not employed elegant solutions like this but merely soldered the return crank to the crankpin. I tap the return crank 14BA or solder a 14BA nut into the RTR crank, wind it on and then secure with a quick dab of solder. I always use a brass 14BA screw for a crankpin that is going to take a return crank because it takes solder better, and carefully blacken the back of the crank and the outer surfaces of the crankpin bush. The crankpin itself is secured at the back of the wheel with a nickel silver pin drilled at 45° through the slot in the screw to prevent the crankpin revolving.

It is quite easy to remove a return crank as the joint can be quickly (but carefully) warmed up again and the crank twisted off. I've done many RTR conversions like this (including two Schools, four more to come one day!)

Philip

Now that sounds like my kind of engineering! Thank you Phil!

triumph3
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby triumph3 » Wed Feb 15, 2023 6:50 pm

Regarding return cranks, I forgot to mention that the return crank on the Ivatt 2-6-0 is a brass casting and has been tapped to screw onto the screw that forms the crankpin.
This is similar to the technique used by Phillip Hall.
I had a bush turned up by a friend for the connecting rod as that is also a brass casting, unfortunately I can’t remember where I aquired it.
The biggest issue with RTR conversions is the “skinny” thickness of the rods and valve gear, hence me buying cast coupling rods when I came across them.
There is always the option of replacing the coupling rods with etched replacements, Brassmasters now do a range of coupling rods for RTR locos.

David

davebradwell
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Re: RTR Conversions.

Postby davebradwell » Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:43 pm

If you're going to make parts, then a tapped version of the crankpin bush is the thing. The tapped return crank can be wound tightly against it and they stay in place. With the standard plain bush, the return crank is pulling the screw into the back of the plastic wheel and seems to loosen with time so the crank drops off.

DaveB


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