GWR 2721 class panniers in Cornwall

[kevini]

Hello,

Is anyone aware if any of these were used in Cornwall and what their plate numbers are (photos?) as I am interested in modelling one for a Cornish branch line in the 1920's

Thanks
Kevin

[Ian@Exton]

Kevin,
Looking at the allocations for 1928, there were a number of 2721 class locos at St Blazey for at least part of the year.
They were 2725, 2740, 2748, 2755 and 2776. Most of these also spent some weeks of the year at Newton Abbot works.
The only other Cornish allocation shown in 1928 is Truro - 2776 spent a few 4 week periods there.
Hope that helps,
Ian

[kevini]

Thanks
Is there a web site where I can look up the allocations of GWR classes and plate numbers?
I was looking to do a Penzance inspired layout so am looking for a year in 20/30's when 27XX or 18XX panniers "may" have been used around there.

[petermeyer]

Some of the GWR allocations are in the National Archives at Kew. There is a searchable database online.

[steve howe]

Hi Kevin,

You might find this site useful:

http://www.gwr.org.uk/nopanniers.html

and this publication:

GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY LOCOMOTIVE ALLOCATIONS FOR 1921 Ian Harrison wild swan publications 1984 ISBN 0906867215


"The locomotive allocations given in this book are taken from the original Great Western Railway locomotive registers now kept in the Public record Office at Kew. These registers record the allocation of each engine at 1st January 1921, together with the subsequent allocations at the end of thirteen 'four week' periods throughout the year. The GWR registers include not only the company's own locomotives and railmotors but also those of the Welsh railways which were effectively under GWR control, together with a few engines on loan to the GWR. Several of the locos operated by the Rhondda and Swansea Bay Railway, the Port Talbot Railway and the South Wales Mineral Railway were ex-GWR engines and major repairs were conducted at Swindon Works. The allocations of these locomotives are also included here." (quote from bookseller)


Steve

[Bill Newstead]

J W P Rowledge, GWR Locomotive Allocations First and Last Sheds 1922 - 1967 (David and Charles, 1986) lists 2737 and 2785 at St Blazey at the end of May 1922. At that time they were regarded as 'big engines', coded blue when fitted with pannier tanks, and they would have been shedded at St Blazey for the china clay traffic. There are no other Cornish allocations listed.

Regards

Bill

[MarcD]

I'm working on a 7mm china clay layout (Carbis Wharf) circ 1900ish is GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY LOCOMOTIVE ALLOCATIONS FOR 1921 worth getting?

Marc

[martin goodall]

Probably not. The allocations nearly 20 years later (and after a World War) are likely to have been very different from the early 1900s allocations. Engines moved around quite a lot, and sometimes after a very short sojourn at a particular shed.

What you really need is the engine record cards for each of the members of the 2721 Class. Offhand I don't know where these are currently located, and it would be a fairly time consuming process to work your way through these records to ascertain which engines were allocated to Cornish sheds at the relevant date.

A quicker, but perhaps less accurate, method would be to look out for dated photos showing any of the engines in Cornwall at around the relevant time.

Alternatively, you could work on the "parallel universe" principle - i.e. that your layout just happens to be located in a very similar but subtly different universe to our own, in which your chosen members of the 2721 Class just happened to be allocated to this line.

[MarcD]

Photos of this date are a bits scarce on the ground. Ironically if I dated the layout in 1875-1880 or 1970-1989 I have all the loco info to run the layout.
I'm clutching at straws at the moment.
Marc

[Ian@Exton]

Marc
The GWR locomotive always allocations are at the National Archives at Kew.
For example, the allocations for 1903 are document RAIL 254/61, I believe.

These allocation registers show the shed that each locomotive was based at for each 4 week period during the year.

Of course, though this thread is entitled 2721 class panniers, they would have been saddle tanks in 1903.

Hope that helps - if you want more information about the allocation registers send me a pm.

Ian (author of the 1921 allocations book).

[bécasse]

Alternatively, you could work on the "parallel universe" principle - i.e. that your layout just happens to be located in a very similar but subtly different universe to our own, in which your chosen members of the 2721 Class just happened to be allocated to this line.

Actually the real parallel universe situation, at least if your layout portrays a fictional (but realistic) location, is that the presence on the railway map of the line concerned would have changed the logistical requirements. The typical classes of the neighbourhood would doubtless have still been employed but the existence of the additional fictional line would have meant that more individual locos were required and this would have changed the whole allocation history of the class concerned.

[Noel]

I'm working on a 7mm china clay layout (Carbis Wharf) circ 1900ish

I've not been paying much attention to this thread [not my interest in terms of location or period], but I do have a copy of 'Archive' issue 24, which has an article on the nearby Goonbarrow branch. The steam locos used on that line were the Cornwall Minerals Railway back-to-back pairs, in original form and then as rebuilt by the GWR, plus GW 1380 "Ringing Rock" ex-North Pembroke and Fishguard, Peckett GW 1388 "Goonbarrow" ordered by the CMR, followed by members of GW classes 1361, 1223, 1901, 2021 with modified brakes, and 16xx.

There is no mention of the 2721 class, which is to be expected as the line was yellow restriction and that class was blue restriction, as mentioned earlier. I don't know the restriction on the Carbis Wharf branch, although the other china clay branches in that area were all yellow restriction, but both the Carbis Wharf and connected Wheal Rose branches were short and worked by propelling inbound traffic [no terminal run round on either], so there seems no particular reason to expect it to be different. If the 2721 presence at St. Blazey was related to china clay traffic, it was most likely for working main line to Fowey, I suggest.

[MarcD]

According to Wikipedia there were 2 850's sent to St Blaziey from the the builders in 1879 but I have no other evidence.
Marc

[MarcD]

My copy of Archive 24 arrived this afternoon. Interesting article. No mention of 850 class but some classes I hadn't thought about.
Marc