A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

B661Sutton
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A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby B661Sutton » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:45 pm

I am rather new to P4 and Scalefour modelling, however I have been modelling in 00 gauge for some time previously. As I model the Western Region, I thought I'd tackle one of the ubiquitous 57xx pannier tanks. Although the Ultrascale conversion would be the simplest option and would provide me with a quick and reasonable model to start with, I don't do simple. I had been inspired by some of the excellent modelwork I have seen from other modellers and wanted to produce something to a similar standard. Therefore, I took the plunge and ordered the High Level chassis kit as well as the wheels and other detailing components from Alan Gibson. I attacked the body first, replacing the handrails and adding any that the model was missing. Also, I replaced the moulded pipes for the top feed, injector waste pipes, vacuum and steam heat pipes with suitable brass wire.

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I went rather to town in detailing this, I admit. I even went as far as to replace the moulded lifting hook loops with wire replacements.

The chassis was simpler to do, at least in principle. It was a straightforward build of a High Level chassis kit, though a learning curve for someone like me who is rather a beginner in the art of kitbuilding. Still, it went together smoothly (a credit to its design that even my ham-fisted self could build it) and I managed to get it to run reasonably smoothly too, though it's not gojng to amaze anyone with low speed performance. After a coat of paint and my usual level of weathering applied (absolutely filthy), the model was finished.

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The model is finished as 8718 as it was when allocated to Stourbridge shed during 1966, the last year it was in service. As my first foray into P4, I think it turned out alright. Any thoughts and constructive criticism is welcome as I'm interested in what you think of my modelling.
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Steve Carter
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby Steve Carter » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:14 am

Well done, a lot of worthwhile work gone into that. As for dirty locos, well your weathering just reeks of pure neglect for an loco at the very end of its life. How do you do it?
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Andy W
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby Andy W » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:21 am

Great work. That’s how I remember panniers in Worcester when I was a kid.
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Serjt-Dave
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby Serjt-Dave » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:45 pm

Yes well done there. A very convincing model. I look forward to seeing more of your work.

Keep Safe.

Dave

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Julian Roberts
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby Julian Roberts » Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:33 am

Lovely absolutely filthy finish :) I echo Steve - how do you do it? I really like the ground level camera perspective.

Regarding slow speed running, assuming you've got exact correlation of wheel spacing and rod lengths, crankpins exactly matching each other for throw and angle on each side, and quartering done in the GW models jig, the only further improvement is either with the gearing or DCC control. I don't have DCC and gear most of my locos to the highest ratio gear Hi Level do, now 1:120. This gives me a top speed between 25 and 35. I rarely see any P4 exhibition layout where a train goes faster than that.

There's plenty about all those things on the Forum but do ask if you want to know more or where to look. All the best, keep it up!

Terry

Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby Terry » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:07 pm

Love the realistic worn look on this one. Really nice.

Terry

B661Sutton
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby B661Sutton » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:07 pm

Thank you all for your very kind comments. This was a fun project to work on and I will be hopefully making more engines (and probably more panniers too).

Steve Carter wrote:Well done, a lot of worthwhile work gone into that. As for dirty locos, well your weathering just reeks of pure neglect for an loco at the very end of its life. How do you do it?


The weathering was done mostly with various mixes of enamel paints. The underframe first got a coat of Citadel Typhus Corrosion to add a bit of texture, before adding various shades of dirty brown (and oily blacks for oil effects). Finally, some weathering powders add some finishing touches, like brake block dust and such. The body got various washes of enamel paints, though more grey shades to mirror the more sooty and dusty effects seen on an engine above the running plate. This was finished off with some weathering powders, for some soot and ash effects. This is more of an overview than a detailed description of what I do, but I hope this gives an idea as to what I did.

Julian Roberts wrote:Lovely absolutely filthy finish :) I echo Steve - how do you do it? I really like the ground level camera perspective.

Regarding slow speed running, assuming you've got exact correlation of wheel spacing and rod lengths, crankpins exactly matching each other for throw and angle on each side, and quartering done in the GW models jig, the only further improvement is either with the gearing or DCC control. I don't have DCC and gear most of my locos to the highest ratio gear Hi Level do, now 1:120. This gives me a top speed between 25 and 35. I rarely see any P4 exhibition layout where a train goes faster than that.

There's plenty about all those things on the Forum but do ask if you want to know more or where to look. All the best, keep it up!


Thank you for advice. I did do most of what you said, apart from the use of the GW models quartering jig (it's still on the shopping list). I ended up having to quarter the wheels by eye and slight adjustments to get it to run properly (I think this is why it doesn't run silky smooth). It worked for this model mostly, but I will be getting a quartering jig for any future projects.

davebradwell
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby davebradwell » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:13 pm

You can deduce the errors in a chassis just by looking carefully at the lie of the coupling rods. With one side rods on front centre look for small differences in the crank angles and repeat on back centre. From the information about whether error is clockwise or counter-clock you can deduce which bits of far coupling rod are short/long or which wheelset needs quartering adjusting. Repeat for other side. Doesn't work if you've drilled out the crankpin holes excessively.

Also to point out that some of us think Julian's 120:1 is completely bonkers but it seems we're never going to agree here. 40:1 would give a much quieter loco, given an accurate chassis and decent controller - more likely a decoder. If you have a tiny bind, even with 10,000:1 it's going to give a little jump as the tight spot passes. It'll move slowly, though.

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Paul Willis
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby Paul Willis » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:26 am

davebradwell wrote:You can deduce the errors in a chassis just by looking carefully at the lie of the coupling rods. With one side rods on front centre look for small differences in the crank angles and repeat on back centre. From the information about whether error is clockwise or counter-clock you can deduce which bits of far coupling rod are short/long or which wheelset needs quartering adjusting. Repeat for other side.


A useful thing for this is just a short length of flat timber - say 2" by 6" or 8" - with a short length of track that you can place the loco on, then pick the *whole thing* up and look at it from each side and at different angles, without touching or moving the locomotive at all.

Particularly with any form of "floppy" chassis, it's really easy to accidentally move things (like the rod on that oversized crankpin hole DaveB mentioned!) and then you've lost your datum point.

This is the "plank" that I use, which sits on top of my workbench. The straight track is about 8" long.

Workbench test track (1).JPG


To be honest, even this board is a little unwieldy for what I've just described but it fulfils a number of other purposes as well:

- setting buffer heights
- testing couplings/uncoupling (there is a magnet set below the straight track)
- trackholding when pushed through an A5 turnout
- etc...

Having something like this around takes up so little space and material, and can be so handy when you're modelling.

Cheers
Paul
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Enigma
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby Enigma » Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:45 pm

Nice build on this. I'm currently in the process of building the HL chassis using the kit compensation (as is my usual wont) and have reached the stage of considering how to fit pickups. Chris rather skates over this only referring to the possibilty of using sprung plunger type which I'm not particularly keen on. Did you use these or try something else? I've studied the ones on the CLAG website (http://www.clag.org.uk/pannier-csb.html) - and can't really see how they are attached without fouling the underside of the body.

Anyone else used these or perhaps tried something else?

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grovenor-2685
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:22 pm

Enigma wrote: I've studied the ones on the CLAG website (http://www.clag.org.uk/pannier-csb.html) - and can't really see how they are attached without fouling the underside of the body.

The paxolin strips are mounted lower than the top of the frames so should not foul the body.
The relevant paragraph from the CLAG site is:
These are also mounted on paxolin strips on the underside of which are 1.6mm brass tubes, which slide onto 0.9mm spigots fixed into the sideframes and positioned so that the underside of the paxolin strips are level with the top of the frame sidebrackets. The spigots and tubes allow the paxolin strips to be taken off easily so that the pickup pressure can be tweaked. The pickups are shaped to go under the body splashers.
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Philip Hall
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:46 pm

If I ever have to adjust quartering (unlikely using a GW jig) I use a small turntable; it’s on a pedestal and think was intended for paint spraying. It means I can turn the chassis from side to side, like Paul’s lump of wood but less chance of moving it as I’m not picking it up.

Philip

Enigma
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby Enigma » Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:22 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:
Enigma wrote: I've studied the ones on the CLAG website (http://www.clag.org.uk/pannier-csb.html) - and can't really see how they are attached without fouling the underside of the body.

The paxolin strips are mounted lower than the top of the frames so should not foul the body.
The relevant paragraph from the CLAG site is:
These are also mounted on paxolin strips on the underside of which are 1.6mm brass tubes, which slide onto 0.9mm spigots fixed into the sideframes and positioned so that the underside of the paxolin strips are level with the top of the frame sidebrackets. The spigots and tubes allow the paxolin strips to be taken off easily so that the pickup pressure can be tweaked. The pickups are shaped to go under the body splashers.


Yes, but the tops of the frame brackets - which are the footplate supports - should have the bottom of the footplate resting on them so there is no room (in theory anyway) for the paxolin strip to fit. Were the tops of the brackets filed down to create space?

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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby Enigma » Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:25 pm

Philip Hall wrote:If I ever have to adjust quartering (unlikely using a GW jig) I use a small turntable; it’s on a pedestal and think was intended for paint spraying. It means I can turn the chassis from side to side, like Paul’s lump of wood but less chance of moving it as I’m not picking it up.

Philip

I use an inexpesnive (ie - cheap!) plastic cake decorating turntable for both spraying and checking things. Ther are innumerable coats of paint now enhancing its appearance.

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Winander
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby Winander » Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:43 pm

Enigma wrote:Yes, but the tops of the frame brackets - which are the footplate supports - should have the bottom of the footplate resting on them so there is no room (in theory anyway) for the paxolin strip to fit. Were the tops of the brackets filed down to create space?


The build on the CLAG site was for a Bachmann body. Are you are using the same, if not it may be relevant?
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Enigma
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby Enigma » Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:59 pm

Winander wrote:
Enigma wrote:Yes, but the tops of the frame brackets - which are the footplate supports - should have the bottom of the footplate resting on them so there is no room (in theory anyway) for the paxolin strip to fit. Were the tops of the brackets filed down to create space?


The build on the CLAG site was for a Bachmann body. Are you are using the same, if not it may be relevant?

Definitely a Bachmann one.

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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby davebradwell » Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:08 pm

We've been through all this before of course but I'll continue to have my springs acting vertically, my pick-ups horizontally and the gearbox arm will be soldered to the frame and the tab preventing rotation will be as near as possible vertically above the driven axle. Every force has its place and in this idealised case is in no danger of troubling anything else - I don't want to know "what I can get away with".

This clag pannier pops up regularly but no-one has ever explained what was so wrong with the original pick-ups that they needed replacing. They could have been tidier of course - small pieces of pcb under the screws holding the dummy springs but that wouldn't change the function and its easy to be wise afterwards. Must admit though, the GW spring hangers present quite a wall for the pick-ups but I suspect LNER K1 or J39 with same wheel diameter are similar.

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steve howe
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Re: A detailed Bachmann 57xx pannier tank

Postby steve howe » Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:56 pm

I like the look of that pannier, it has that 'low, heavy look' like its sitting down on its springs which the prototype has but commercial models lack. The HL chassis captures this look perfectly. Lovely model, just how I remember them! :thumb

Steve


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