Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
-
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:38 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Stunning! It's got everything.
Do you have (pipe) drawings etc. or have you been doing contortions with a camera?
Absolutely wonderful work.
Steve
Do you have (pipe) drawings etc. or have you been doing contortions with a camera?
Absolutely wonderful work.
Steve
-
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Steve.
Thanks for the kind comments.
There are various drawings, including Pipe & Rod for both original and rebuilt locos, in the Wild Swan profile book. I've used these, along with published photos and some private shots which a couple of people have sent me via model railway web sites, to help make the pipework. I haven't been any contortions myself!
Dave.
Thanks for the kind comments.
There are various drawings, including Pipe & Rod for both original and rebuilt locos, in the Wild Swan profile book. I've used these, along with published photos and some private shots which a couple of people have sent me via model railway web sites, to help make the pipework. I haven't been any contortions myself!
Dave.
-
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:39 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
May I add to the admiring comments - really superb modelling!
Chas
-
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
A couple of hours with a rotary burr have resulted in this. Quite a lot of material has been removed to accommodate the 16 mm diameter motor and to get the boiler casting to sit down onto the footplate. I'm quite pleased with the fit around the splashers and some very minor gaps will be filled by the glue used to fix the boiler in place - probably some sore of epoxy.
Dave.
Dave.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Progress continues at a glacial pace.
Arrangements have been made to allow the boiler unit to be attached and removed from the footplate assembly. The kit intends two 10 BA screws though the slots in the footplate into holes tapped directly into the resin under the smokebox saddle. The firebox end remains free until finally glued to the cab front. I really didn't like this arrangement, partly because my representation of the inside cylinder and exhaust passageways are in the way of the suggested screws, and mainly because I wanted a more secure attachment to the cab. I find that, inevitably, the boiler gets used as a handle for picking up the loco (I know it shouldn't, but that's my experience) and the idea of it all just hanging on a glued joint didn't fill me with confidence.
So, alternative arrangements have had to be made.
At the front, a single 14 BA countersunk screw, somewhat further forward than the kit design and clear of the internal gubbins, passing through the resin into a nut soldered to a backing plate which, in turn, is epoxy glued inside the smokebox, as shown here:
At the rear, brass wire pegs have been fixed into holes drilled into the rear face of the firebox. These engage with the opening in the front of the cab which both centralised the firebox and held it tight down onto the splasher tops and footplate.
In the kit, the cover plates along the bottom of the firebox, between the rear splashers are supplied as white metal castings. I thought these might be tricky to solder to the footplate and to have the pipes running along the top fixed without melting part of them so i replaced them with items made from brass strip.
A start has been made to represent the various pipe runs from the cab and along the tops of the rear and centre splashers. Some of these were steam to the sanders and are shown on the Pipe & Rod drawing. An additional, slightly smaller pipe, on each side, is clearly visible in photos but does not appear on the P&R, so I suspect they are either a later modification or are lubrication pipes of some sort.
Here are the pipes on the LHS made from 0.2 mm copper (5 amp fuse wire) for the sander steam and 0.182 mm brass for the mystery additional pipe. The small securing clips are made from flatted 0.2 mm copper.
On with the RHS next. Three pipes on that side.
Dave.
Arrangements have been made to allow the boiler unit to be attached and removed from the footplate assembly. The kit intends two 10 BA screws though the slots in the footplate into holes tapped directly into the resin under the smokebox saddle. The firebox end remains free until finally glued to the cab front. I really didn't like this arrangement, partly because my representation of the inside cylinder and exhaust passageways are in the way of the suggested screws, and mainly because I wanted a more secure attachment to the cab. I find that, inevitably, the boiler gets used as a handle for picking up the loco (I know it shouldn't, but that's my experience) and the idea of it all just hanging on a glued joint didn't fill me with confidence.
So, alternative arrangements have had to be made.
At the front, a single 14 BA countersunk screw, somewhat further forward than the kit design and clear of the internal gubbins, passing through the resin into a nut soldered to a backing plate which, in turn, is epoxy glued inside the smokebox, as shown here:
At the rear, brass wire pegs have been fixed into holes drilled into the rear face of the firebox. These engage with the opening in the front of the cab which both centralised the firebox and held it tight down onto the splasher tops and footplate.
In the kit, the cover plates along the bottom of the firebox, between the rear splashers are supplied as white metal castings. I thought these might be tricky to solder to the footplate and to have the pipes running along the top fixed without melting part of them so i replaced them with items made from brass strip.
A start has been made to represent the various pipe runs from the cab and along the tops of the rear and centre splashers. Some of these were steam to the sanders and are shown on the Pipe & Rod drawing. An additional, slightly smaller pipe, on each side, is clearly visible in photos but does not appear on the P&R, so I suspect they are either a later modification or are lubrication pipes of some sort.
Here are the pipes on the LHS made from 0.2 mm copper (5 amp fuse wire) for the sander steam and 0.182 mm brass for the mystery additional pipe. The small securing clips are made from flatted 0.2 mm copper.
On with the RHS next. Three pipes on that side.
Dave.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- Posts: 643
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:31 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Excellent work there David. Great stuff.
Keep Safe
Dave
Keep Safe
Dave
-
- Posts: 473
- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:53 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Inspirational stuff as always Dave!
-
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Thanks for the comments.
Now a plea for help.
Has anyone who has built an early version Black 5 from a Brassmasters kit got a spare atomiser cock cover - a white metal casting, part No. 44, that they could let me have? That's the type fitted lower down on the smokebox on later build 5s.
The reason for my request is that the part in the Scot kit is the wrong type, at least in the era for my model.
Dave.
Now a plea for help.
Has anyone who has built an early version Black 5 from a Brassmasters kit got a spare atomiser cock cover - a white metal casting, part No. 44, that they could let me have? That's the type fitted lower down on the smokebox on later build 5s.
The reason for my request is that the part in the Scot kit is the wrong type, at least in the era for my model.
Dave.
-
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:38 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
I can have a look tomorrow, need to check my prototype as well of course (1960 condition)
Cheers,
Steve
Copper - shim for those tiny cleats?
Cheers,
Steve
Copper - shim for those tiny cleats?
-
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Thanks, Steve. Any luck so far?
A little more progress has been made with detailing the footplate.
I've finally got round to re-attaching the sand box filler pipe support plates, three of which I accidentally broke off the footplate etch way back in the construction. I broke the forth one off deliberately, to make them all the same. It's been a real fiddle to position the loose plates and hold whilst getting a tack of solder to retain them. However, after some frustrating missteps, they're all now fixed in an acceptable position. Actually, the original arrangement, where they folded up from the inner edge of the footplate was wrong as the bottom edge of the plates should be set away from the edge by some distance. Having them detached has allowed this to be replicated.
Also added is an additional two feed oil pot on each side, forward of the mechanical lubricator and orientated at right angles to the loco. These are not mentioned in the kit instructions but clearly show in photos. Perhaps these pots were added after the initial rebuilding?
Rather cruel enlarged shot showing the sand box fillers and additional oil pot. Looks like a bit more cleaning up is required on the forward plate.
Dave.
A little more progress has been made with detailing the footplate.
I've finally got round to re-attaching the sand box filler pipe support plates, three of which I accidentally broke off the footplate etch way back in the construction. I broke the forth one off deliberately, to make them all the same. It's been a real fiddle to position the loose plates and hold whilst getting a tack of solder to retain them. However, after some frustrating missteps, they're all now fixed in an acceptable position. Actually, the original arrangement, where they folded up from the inner edge of the footplate was wrong as the bottom edge of the plates should be set away from the edge by some distance. Having them detached has allowed this to be replicated.
Also added is an additional two feed oil pot on each side, forward of the mechanical lubricator and orientated at right angles to the loco. These are not mentioned in the kit instructions but clearly show in photos. Perhaps these pots were added after the initial rebuilding?
Rather cruel enlarged shot showing the sand box fillers and additional oil pot. Looks like a bit more cleaning up is required on the forward plate.
Dave.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- Posts: 643
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:31 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
It's all trials and tribulations David but your work is spot on.
Keep Safe
Dave
Keep Safe
Dave
-
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:51 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Dave
That dodge with the firebox fixings into the cab are a great idea! Pinched!! Superb work as always...
Stay safe
Mike
That dodge with the firebox fixings into the cab are a great idea! Pinched!! Superb work as always...
Stay safe
Mike
-
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Thanks Dave and Mike.
Onwards! Now you see it, now you don't. The kit provides a very nice, multi-part support bracket for the reach rod. Unfortunately, i found it necessary to cut 2 mm from the back of the base plate and stiffening rib to allow the reach rod to align with the slots in the cab front and the reversing arm on the weigh shaft. In any case, it becomes completely hidden from view by the extra rear sand boxes that were fitted shortly after rebuilding the locos.
Reach rod in place, with support bracket.
And there it is - gone!
Dave.
Onwards! Now you see it, now you don't. The kit provides a very nice, multi-part support bracket for the reach rod. Unfortunately, i found it necessary to cut 2 mm from the back of the base plate and stiffening rib to allow the reach rod to align with the slots in the cab front and the reversing arm on the weigh shaft. In any case, it becomes completely hidden from view by the extra rear sand boxes that were fitted shortly after rebuilding the locos.
Reach rod in place, with support bracket.
And there it is - gone!
Dave.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:38 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Thanks, Steve. Any luck so far?
Part duly found in a kit planned to be SFB (45205) and snipped from the sprue - will catch the post on Monday, will PM for address.
Cheers,
Steve
Part duly found in a kit planned to be SFB (45205) and snipped from the sprue - will catch the post on Monday, will PM for address.
Cheers,
Steve
-
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
A friend has posted some photos on WT showing the detail of the oil pipe runs around the mechanical lubricators. These showed that I had incorrectly mounted the 4 and 3 feed oil pots in the wrong place. The sprue on the castings was a perfect fit in holes etched into the footplate, so i assumed these were locating holes. Wrong! The oil pots are further inboard and the holes are where several oil pipes pass through the footplate.
The offending oil pots have been moved inboard. It was a bit of a struggle to hold them in the right position and upright in two planes without the locating peg. Sadly, the LH, 4-feed has suffered somewhat and the fairly neat pipe runs I'd achieved originally are no longer as good as I would like. That said, they don't look as bad on the actual model as they do in a several times full size photo! The hole in the footplate, through which several oil pipe pass, but which I had wrongly used to locate the bottom of the oil pot, is plainly visible. The much larger hole is where the mechanical lubricator fits. However, the lubricator casting is flat at the bottom and devoid of a locating peg, so the hole is totally redundant.
Also visible are the oil pots on the front splashers and the atomiser cock cover on the side of the smokebox. The W/m casting is a spare from a Brassmasters Black 5 kit, kindly donated by Steve, of Rose Grove fame, as the one in the Scot kit is quite the wrong shape.
Another request for help. I thought I had the nameplates for this loco - 46109, Royal Engineer, but now I've taken a proper look at them, I'm not happy with their appearance and scale size. Unfortunately, my normal source of numbers and plates - 247 Developments, doesn't list this particular loco. Can anyone suggest another source of suitable plates. 4 mm scale, of course.
Dave.
The offending oil pots have been moved inboard. It was a bit of a struggle to hold them in the right position and upright in two planes without the locating peg. Sadly, the LH, 4-feed has suffered somewhat and the fairly neat pipe runs I'd achieved originally are no longer as good as I would like. That said, they don't look as bad on the actual model as they do in a several times full size photo! The hole in the footplate, through which several oil pipe pass, but which I had wrongly used to locate the bottom of the oil pot, is plainly visible. The much larger hole is where the mechanical lubricator fits. However, the lubricator casting is flat at the bottom and devoid of a locating peg, so the hole is totally redundant.
Also visible are the oil pots on the front splashers and the atomiser cock cover on the side of the smokebox. The W/m casting is a spare from a Brassmasters Black 5 kit, kindly donated by Steve, of Rose Grove fame, as the one in the Scot kit is quite the wrong shape.
Another request for help. I thought I had the nameplates for this loco - 46109, Royal Engineer, but now I've taken a proper look at them, I'm not happy with their appearance and scale size. Unfortunately, my normal source of numbers and plates - 247 Developments, doesn't list this particular loco. Can anyone suggest another source of suitable plates. 4 mm scale, of course.
Dave.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Just had to have a go at improving the oil pot pipes. I also noticed that the front pipe was missing - lost during the removal tussle, so that's been replaced and the other pipes re-bent to neaten them up a bit. Still not as good as they were originally, but better than before. I think.
Dave.
Dave.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:18 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
I have a set of Modelmaster/Jackson Evans plates of 46109 if you'd like them.
Phil Tattershall
Phil Tattershall
-
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Phil,
That's most kind of you. I'll send a PM with my details.
Dave.
That's most kind of you. I'll send a PM with my details.
Dave.
-
- Posts: 473
- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:53 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Fantastic - it's a shame more of the Brassmasters parts arent available separately, though I can understand the lack of value to them in stocking relatively low turnover low value parts - though they seem to manage with the GW bits & pieces.
Their oil pots are a better starting point than the Gibson ones, though at least the latter do exist - while the atomiser covers are a missing link.
Who were your original set of nameplates from? I think its a modelmasters pack I have for 46145
Their oil pots are a better starting point than the Gibson ones, though at least the latter do exist - while the atomiser covers are a missing link.
Who were your original set of nameplates from? I think its a modelmasters pack I have for 46145
-
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Pete, I'd prefer not to say save that it was a range which is no longer available.
Actually, they are very nicely etched, it's just that there were several different formats for Scot nameplates and Royal Engineer had the plate directly above the splasher and a crest/emblem above that. The etched plates are the type that had plain section below the name - which is correct for some locos, but not mine. Indeed, the mounting plate in the kit is of this style and will possibly require trimming at the top to ensure it doesn't protrude above the nameplate. The other problem is that the crests were not included.
Before I finally settled on 46109, I also had in mind 46113, Cameronian, and obtained plates from 247 Developments. These are the correct style and included the crests, so it was a bit disappointing to find that they don't do 46109.
The problem has been solved by Phil T's very kind offer of his surplus set of plates.
Dave.
Actually, they are very nicely etched, it's just that there were several different formats for Scot nameplates and Royal Engineer had the plate directly above the splasher and a crest/emblem above that. The etched plates are the type that had plain section below the name - which is correct for some locos, but not mine. Indeed, the mounting plate in the kit is of this style and will possibly require trimming at the top to ensure it doesn't protrude above the nameplate. The other problem is that the crests were not included.
Before I finally settled on 46109, I also had in mind 46113, Cameronian, and obtained plates from 247 Developments. These are the correct style and included the crests, so it was a bit disappointing to find that they don't do 46109.
The problem has been solved by Phil T's very kind offer of his surplus set of plates.
Dave.
-
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:24 am
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
PeteT wrote:Fantastic - it's a shame more of the Brassmasters parts arent available separately, though I can understand the lack of value to them in stocking relatively low turnover low value parts - though they seem to manage with the GW bits & pieces....
I've generally found that LMS / LNER parts are available from Brassmasters, as long as you order the full set of castings. I did this recently with the V2 fittings, many of which can be used for the V4. Much easier for them to supply you with a complete pack rather than just one or two bits from a sprue. The ones you don't use can be kept for other purposes.
That would be an ecumenical matter.
-
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 pm
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
The mechanical lubricators have been fitted and "piped" up. A few other items have also been added including, randomly, the top feed and dome.
With the lubricators, I've tried to route all the pipes more or less as the real thing, based on photos of the preserved Royal Scot loco. It's not all correct because the cast lubricators are both 12 feed (3 plugged) whereas the cylinder lubricator, on the LHS, should be a 16 feed type (one plugged) - so a few pipes short.
Apologies that a couple of these shots are slightly out of focus, but I think they illustrate the point.
First, two shots of the LH, cylinder lubricator.
And two of the RH mechanical lubricator.
There's still the atomiser and associated piping to do and some representation of the lines that link across from one side to the other, under the boiler.
Finally, a couple of shots with the boiler loosely plonked on, showing the top feed and dome.
Dave.
With the lubricators, I've tried to route all the pipes more or less as the real thing, based on photos of the preserved Royal Scot loco. It's not all correct because the cast lubricators are both 12 feed (3 plugged) whereas the cylinder lubricator, on the LHS, should be a 16 feed type (one plugged) - so a few pipes short.
Apologies that a couple of these shots are slightly out of focus, but I think they illustrate the point.
First, two shots of the LH, cylinder lubricator.
And two of the RH mechanical lubricator.
There's still the atomiser and associated piping to do and some representation of the lines that link across from one side to the other, under the boiler.
Finally, a couple of shots with the boiler loosely plonked on, showing the top feed and dome.
Dave.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:24 am
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Hard to believe it's 4mm. Amazing work Dave.
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
Incredible detail for 4mm scale. Most impressed.
Terry
Terry
-
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:16 am
Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
I'm also enthralled and impressed by progress on this beast of an engine and will continue to drool over updates. However, going back to the starting point of the thread and the working inside motion - will anything ever be seen of it all behind everything else? I do hope so.
Lindsay
Lindsay
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], ClaudeBot and 1 guest