Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Jeremy Suter
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Jeremy Suter » Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:58 pm

Hi Dave not sure if these help
46109 at Low Moor
Not found any of the Rebuilt Scots where you can see clearly in the dark underneath.
img20201020_19270207.jpg

46109 Low Moor 24.9.61
img20201020_19280413.jpg

img20201020_19433836.jpg

46122 Crewe North 22. 10.49
With steam coming out is anything more visible

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:21 am

Jeremy,
Thanks for the photos. They don't really address my particular issue but all information is most welcome.
Dave.

ColinMcC
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby ColinMcC » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:28 pm

Does this help?

Colin.

IMG_1564.JPG

triumph3
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby triumph3 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:59 pm

Chaps, you need photos of the other side of the loco! The the operating lever for the rocking ash pan is on the Drivers side only ( on the left looking forward) Remember not all re built Scots had the fitment, as it was part of the boiler a loco could have it in one period but loose it after a boiler change. The operating lever was between the middle driving wheels and the sand pipes. I will try and dig out a photo, but it’s pretty much the same as a Stanier B5.
The reason they were not fitted to all re built Scots is that 30 locos had been re built before the LMS introduced the rocking grate.

David

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:49 pm

Yes, David is spot on; it's the LH side of the loco that's of interest.
My concern was that the original routing of the exhaust steam supply pipe would interfere with the hopper ash pan doors. However, I've looked at the Pipe & Rod drawings for the Caprotti fitted Black 5's, which also had hopper ash pans, and have established that where the pipe runs alongside the hopper, it is 1'-11/2" from the loco centre line - exactly the same as the standard Scot pipe. So, the normal pipe would presumably be still OK with the hopper ash pan.
Looking from the side, the pipe bobs up and down like a big dipper to clear the sloping bottom of the ash pan. By chance, this results in the lowest point coinciding with the position of the hopper operating shaft and bracket, so it looks like the exhaust steam pipe would pass under the operating linkage bracket.
It might not be right, but it would appear that the standard pipe run would still suit a hopper fitted loco. In the absence of better information, I think I'll settle for that.
Dave.

Julian Roberts
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Julian Roberts » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:36 pm

Sorry to be slightly irrelevant to your immediate concern Dave, and to show such ignorance, but what is the exhaust steam going to do and where does it go from and to? Is it to create vacuum?

JFS
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby JFS » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:05 pm

Julian Roberts wrote:Sorry to be slightly irrelevant to your immediate concern Dave, and to show such ignorance, but what is the exhaust steam going to do and where does it go from and to? Is it to create vacuum?


It is comming from a connection in the blast pipe and it is feeding the exhaust steam injector. The idea is to use some of the heat otherwise going up the chimney to put the wate in the boiler. These injectors were cleverly designed to use steam at about 5psi to put wate into a boiler at 250psi. In theory, they could save upto about 11% of fuel, but in practice they could only do that when the loco was working hard for a sustained period of time. When the loco was not working, live steam had to be used for both injectors.

Hope that helps.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:14 pm

but in practice they could only do that when the loco was working hard for a sustained period of time. When the loco was not working, live steam had to be used for both injectors.

Of course the loco does not need much water when its not working. :)
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

triumph3
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby triumph3 » Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:32 pm

Chaps,
Here is a photo of the rocking lever. Its from my book on the Rebuilt Class 7s, Crowood Press.


David
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C4.jpg

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:55 pm

Thanks, David, that's a super photo and most helpful.
Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:15 pm

Slow but steady progress since the previous entry.
The brake gear has been made up and a start made on he exhaust steam injector assembly. Although this latter is rightly considered to be cosmetic detail, and might be expected to be added later in the build, because the exhaust steam delivery pipe is a chunky, immovable lump that will affect pick-up location and routing, it seems sensible to fit it at this stage. The injector is fixed to the rear of the chassis but the pipe will be removable.
The photos show the chassis with the brakes fitted (these are also removable), the injector and its mounting brackets fixed and the start of the exhaust steam pipe (front section, oil separator and front mounting bracket) resting in the foreground.
Scot_061.JPG

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A start has been made on the hopper ash pan door operating mechanism as. The exhaust steam pipe has to wiggle its way under the mechanism and over the nearby brake stretcher as it makes its way rearwards.
Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:19 pm

The pipe has been extended rearwards, complete with wiggles and mounting brackets.
Scot_065.JPG

One last piece to do to join it to the injector.
Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:32 am

The pipe is now complete, with the final section added this morning. Although located in the end of the cast tail of the injector, it is not fixed there and is held in position by two mounting brackets. The final detail was the addition of the drain valve at the lowest point (or highest, when viewed from underneath!).
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There's a further section of this pipe at the front end, where it connects to the inside cylinder block. As this part passes through a hole in the inside motion plate, it can't be fitted till after the motion plate is fixed - and that can't be done till after the footplate and outside motion bracket are made.
Dave.

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johndarch
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby johndarch » Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:47 pm

That's a serious bit of pipework Dave. It's all coming along very nicely.

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barrowroad
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby barrowroad » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:04 pm

Lovely job Dave - proves you can have your pipe and smoke it:-)

Robin

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:55 pm

Some of the pipes and hoses around the back end of the loco have started to appear. A couple more - vacuum brake and steam brake to tender, still to do.
Scot_071.JPG

Scot_072.JPG

Scot_073.JPG

Scot_074.JPG

Dave.

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Mike Garwood » Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:52 am

Brilliant modelling Dave. I notice you've dropped the wheels out while doing this. How does the kit allow for that to happen or how have you engineered a solution to that problem. Having never built a Brassmasters kit, I'm just curious.

Stay safe

Mike

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:12 pm

Mike.
This Brassmasters kit is designed to have a removable keeper plate, which carries the dummy leaf springs and ash pan sides. The Black 5 and Jubilee kits I've built previously did not have a keeper plate arrangement and so, in the case of my locos, the driving wheels are fixed in the chassis.
The locos I've built from other sources, where I've had to design much of the chassis myself, I've incorporated a keeper to facilitate wheel removal.
Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:18 pm

The remaining rear end pipes and hoses have now been made and fitted. Just the ash pan damper door levers to fit to complete the back end of the chassis.
After battling the vacuum pipe into place and fixing, I realised that I'd forgotten to add the triangular flanges where the pipe joins the connection from the driver's brake valve and where the drain valve is located. Since the photos were taken, I've added a representation of the outermost (and most visible) flange by opening the centre hole into a slot, to pass over the pipe run. It will have to do.
Scot_075.JPG

Scot_076.JPG

Scot_077.JPG

Dave.

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barhamd
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby barhamd » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:05 pm

Most impressive gubbins there..

David

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:34 am

Thanks, David.
Just looking at the last few images, I think I'm going to have to flood the "hoses" with a bit more solder. They look rather scruffy and uneven as they are. I hadn't really noticed on the model, but the enlarged images show them up.
Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:50 am

The basic cylinder structure and slide bars have been made up and temporarily fitted to the re-assembled chassis. Getting the cylinder frame to fit to the chassis has been a bit of a struggle. With the cylinder unit folded and soldered up, it definitely didn't want to fit into the slots in the frames, the spacing being quite a bit out. Some fairly serious hacking at the inner edges of the slots and a bit of distortion of the cylinder cross members has resulted in an acceptable fit.
A cross head has been inserted into the LH slide bars for the purposes of the photo. At this stage, the slide bars are loose in the cylinder frame but are now captive.
Scot_078.JPG

Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:47 pm

A start has been made on the footplate unit.It's necessary to have the basic unit made up in order to form the outside valvegear bracket folded to the correct width - it has to just fit inside the footplate valance.
The photos show the chassis fitted to the chassis. The kit is a bit lacking in regard to fixing the two together, with no mention or obvious provision for a rear end fixing. I've modified the parts to use two 14 BA screws at each end. I had to re-position the RH rear screw as I found I couldn't hold the screw and guide it into its hole due to the exhaust injector pipework. These kind of issues arise when you add more detail than the kit designer envisaged, I suppose.
Scot_079.JPG

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Scot_081.JPG

Some time ago, I tried to get a friends Scot running and found the clearance inside the splashers to tight to allow reliable running. To try to avoid this problem on my loco, I had the wheel rims machined to scale width (scale 5.5 inches) and the front and rear wheel sets do have adequate clearance. I'm shortly going to have to decide whether to try and move the centre splashers outwards slightly to allow for some side play in that axle.
Next, though, is the rear end footplate overlay, under the cab.
Dave.

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johndarch
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby johndarch » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:30 pm

That's coming along very nicely Dave.

Dave Holt
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Re: Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109

Postby Dave Holt » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:05 pm

The cab inner frame has been folded up and loosely placed on the footplate.
Should be a fairly straight forward folding exercise but....The instructions warn to be careful not to distort local to the cab spectacle windows when folding the sides. This seems virtually impossible due to the lack of material to hold. So, despite using a hold-and-fold tool, the front plate did distort and had to be pressed back to shape afterwards. The other problem arose when I tried to place the cab structure on the footplate. The front of the floor interfered with the splashers and framework at the drop section of the footplate. To overcome this, as section of floor has had to be removed using a piercing saw. It would have been a lot easier to do this in the flat rather than with the folded up cab. I wonder if anyone else has experience this, an error in the kit or have I done something significantly wrong?
Cab frame placed loosely on the footplate. Those rearward projections at the top of the sides aren't half vulnerable!
Scot_082.JPG

Rear end of the footplate, showing the splashers and support frames that the floor interfered with.
Scot_083.JPG

Cab frame with the floor cut away, after folding, to clear the footplate.
Scot_084.JPG
Scot_084.JPG (189.68 KiB) Viewed 1512 times

Dave.


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