PDK Models

Cransford
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PDK Models

Postby Cransford » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:13 pm

Hi, just a bit of a general question to the locked down masses!

Just wondering what experiences people have had with PDK Models. I'm aware they're designed for 00 gauge but what about adapted to P4 gauge? Primarily my thoughts are for the LM/BR Ivatt Class 4 2-6-0 as an option to a Bachmann version in particular but all comments welcomed as personal favourite types would include A1 and A2 types.

Cheers,

Paul

Dave Franks

Re: PDK Models

Postby Dave Franks » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:06 pm

From what I recall from when I was thinking of building one was that the PDK tender is just plain wrong, the slope of the tank side was too steep at about 45 degrees so I built the old Millholme kit instead although that had it's own problems with poor castings but it was the right shape and look when finished. Later I passed that OO model onto someone else and bought a Bachmann one which was converted to EM but not quite finished yet....
I built a couple of the Millholme ones for customers as below in P4 and they looked the part but so does the Bachmann one if you put the work into it.

Mucky Duck.jpg


Dave Franks.
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barhamd
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Re: PDK Models

Postby barhamd » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:36 pm

I built their D16/3 a few years back, I didn't think it was too bad, needed a bit of work but definitely a good starting point.

IMG_7934a.jpg


David
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Daddyman
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Re: PDK Models

Postby Daddyman » Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:47 am

I've had a few of their kits, and they've all ended up being guided scratchbuilds. Most of them have a very basic chassis with no (cosmetic) spring detail; they (the chassis) tend to be a fold-up design, but once folded are too wide for 00 gauge (which they're aimed at), thus defeating the object.

There is often quite a lot of the under-boiler missing to accommodate old-style motors, and if brass the boilers haven't always been well rolled, perhaps because they're full of big holes to locate the boiler fittings.

Many of the LNER types have questionable cab-side dimensions, especially the gap between the cab-side windows, which spoils the "look" of them - the D49 and A2/1 are cases in point. The latter also suffers from a resin boiler which is off-round, a detail-free chassis, and big round ends on all the valve-gear parts, meaning that for the hundred-and-odd quid I paid for it, I have a useable tender, and maybe footplate, valances and cab front; I'll end up having to scratchbuild the cab sides and boiler and get a Comet V2 chassis and valve gear.

Some, such as the D30 and D34, are fundamentally accurate but build up into just the basic outline, and if you want any of the detail that should be there, you have to scratchbuild it or source it elsewhere. Castings which should contain small detail, such as Westinghouse pumps and backheads, are pretty poor, whereas things like domes and chimneys are better than most kit manufacturers' - being round at least, with good decent flanges. Smokebox doors - another character-defining feature on a loco - tend to be a bit hit-and-miss, especially where the hinge straps are concerned.

Cransford
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Re: PDK Models

Postby Cransford » Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:34 am

Gentlemen of the lock down throng!

Thanks for the comments, gives much food for thought. If I was to go down the Bachmann route, I'm assuming a replacement chassis would be the order of the day. If so, where would that come from? I've had a brief look at Comet and they seem to do a chassis for the BR 4MT, which I'm guessing is for the BR Standard and not the Ivatt design.

Cheers,

Paul

Cransford
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Re: PDK Models

Postby Cransford » Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:40 am

....and so to answer my own daft question. Having dug an inch deeper, found a thread leading me to Brassmasters! Really must do better!

Cheers again,

Paul

timlewis
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Re: PDK Models

Postby timlewis » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:17 am

Chris Pendlenton described making a Bachmann/Brassmasters one in MRJ 175 - worth a look.

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Horsetan
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Re: PDK Models

Postby Horsetan » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:28 pm

Daddyman wrote:I've had a few of their kits, and they've all ended up being guided scratchbuilds. Most of them have a very basic chassis with no (cosmetic) spring detail; they (the chassis) tend to be a fold-up design, but once folded are too wide for 00 gauge (which they're aimed at), thus defeating the object.

There is often quite a lot of the under-boiler missing to accommodate old-style motors, and if brass the boilers haven't always been well rolled, perhaps because they're full of big holes to locate the boiler fittings.


I have a few samples as well.... :roll:

They are directly descended from Crownline, so Paul Hill's 1980s design philosophies - which are basically the simplest approach to get something running that more or less looks the part - combined with some old Kemilway ideas on suspension all survive to the present day. I think the artwork for most of the range is still hand-drawn in the traditional way on paper rather than using CAD.

Some kits, like the 72xx 2-8-2T I was picking through a couple of weeks ago, have eminently usable etchings for the bodywork and then get let down by the castings. That's not the best casting of a no.4 taper boiler in the manufacturer's own photo, whilst the sample I have is uncertain about which way round you should fit it - it's neither one nor the other. Still, upgrade parts and an Easichas of sorts are available from Brassmasters so it's not all gloom for this kit.

Many of the LNER types have questionable cab-side dimensions, especially the gap between the cab-side windows, which spoils the "look" of them - the D49 and A2/1 are cases in point. .....


See also the V2's cab.

Some, such as the D30 and D34, are fundamentally accurate but build up into just the basic outline, and if you want any of the detail that should be there, you have to scratchbuild it or source it elsewhere. Castings which should contain small detail, such as Westinghouse pumps and backheads, are pretty poor, whereas things like domes and chimneys are better than most kit manufacturers' - being round at least, with good decent flanges. Smokebox doors - another character-defining feature on a loco - tend to be a bit hit-and-miss, especially where the hinge straps are concerned.


I prefer to think of them as "no-frills" kits, a bit like flying with Ryanair. It's just a means of getting there, or almost there (depending on where the airport is).

The D34 at least has the option of a slightly less-primitive chassis from Peter Stanger's 52F Models.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Daddyman
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Re: PDK Models

Postby Daddyman » Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:26 pm

Agreed on all points, Ivan. The one and only time I flew with Ryan Air, they left me 97km away from my destination, an apt analogy for the PDK D40 I'm currently working on...

Cransford
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Re: PDK Models

Postby Cransford » Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:23 pm

Gents,

Again, many thanks for the replies. Have decided the Bachmann/Brassmasters route will probably be best. Next problem I seem to be finding is driving wheels (possibly even the pony/tender wheels as well but haven't gotten that far!). I can't seem to find anything on Ultrascale website and it appears the leadtime may be a little "long". Have also looked at Alan Gibson catalogue (albeit the 2018 edition on line) there don't seem to be 5''-3" 16 spoke wheels to suit. Any thoughts from the throng?

Cheers,

Paul

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PeteT
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Re: PDK Models

Postby PeteT » Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:12 am

Hi Paul,

Ultrascale do do them - they do a 'complete set' for the BR 76xxx and when requested in the notes will swap the tender wheelsets for the large Ivatt ones.

Cransford
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Re: PDK Models

Postby Cransford » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:03 am

Peter, Many thanks. Didn't realise there was commonality with the BR Standards. I also desperately need to get to Specsavers as I downloaded the Brassmaster instructions to read that Alan Gibson also do wheels! Must read more!!

Cheers,

Paul

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: PDK Models

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:19 am

Daddyman wrote:Agreed on all points, Ivan. The one and only time I flew with Ryan Air, they left me 97km away from my destination, an apt analogy for the PDK D40 I'm currently working on...

Out of interest, what's wrong with that particular kit? I fancied building one (as one of the ones sold to the SECR).

Daddyman
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Re: PDK Models

Postby Daddyman » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:51 am

Apart from the very basic renderings of chassis, bogie, cab interior and brakes, the tender is wrong in a number of ways and I've ended up scratchbuilding from the footplate up to get it to match prototype photos and a drawing in RM (admittedly not always an indication of accuracy). The tender sides were too short, and the flares too (as well as being the wrong shape), so I had to replace those, and the coal rails start too far back, so need to be modified. Then you need to source replacement castings for things like backhead, Westinghouse pump and smokebox door as these are all poorly rendered (and anyway I think the SECR locos kept the original GNSR s.box door, which is not supplied in the kit), and I still don't know how I'm going to do the brake actuating cylinders between the driving wheels - certainly not with the 2D etch supplied in the kit...

Having said all this, I'm pretty fussy, and I think the basic outline of the loco that you get from the kit might satisfy most.

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: PDK Models

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:34 am

Daddyman wrote:Having said all this, I'm pretty fussy, and I think the basic outline of the loco that you get from the kit might satisfy most.

Thanks for the explanation. There's something not quite right with the made up examples I've seen that I couldn't quite put my finger on, so maybe it's not just you being fussy.

Daddyman
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Re: PDK Models

Postby Daddyman » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:59 am

pete_mcfarlane wrote:
Daddyman wrote:Having said all this, I'm pretty fussy, and I think the basic outline of the loco that you get from the kit might satisfy most.

Thanks for the explanation. There's something not quite right with the made up examples I've seen that I couldn't quite put my finger on, so maybe it's not just you being fussy.


Glad to be of help!

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Horsetan
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Re: PDK Models

Postby Horsetan » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:01 am

Cransford wrote:...Ultrascale website and it appears the leadtime may be a little "long". ....


Under present circumstances, it may be 3 months, 6, 9, or even next year. At least you can still pop an order in. I think it depends on when or if Mr Rogers has an opportunity to travel to his workshop.
That would be an ecumenical matter.


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