Martin Finney V2

DougN
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:16 pm

Yeah the easter eggs may get eatten by then.... the chassis will last a lot longer! :D
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

DougN
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:10 am

Well no work on the V2 this weekend. I made a trolley for the P4 layout. As this will move very very slowly and it is intended to be a long term project it was time for a more permanent storage solution. It is also designed to hold the 3 sections (4ftx 2ft) allow it to be moved around and to live under my OO layout (plonk and play you understand :) ) via the casters installed on it! The idea is for the trolley to double as a transport for the layout if it ever heads to a exhibition!

Along with some other too long term jobs around the house. Some skirting boards that had never been finished in about 16 years! a 1 hour job but 3 hours of getting stuff out, cleaning up, pulling a short skirting board off, finding a long forgotten length I had squirreled away, sand old paint off, cut, trim, fix in place and then a trip to the hardware for a tube of no more gaps! but now it is for a coat or 3 of paint.

The next week sees the normal work days. The weekends however are becoming a day of completing house things, next is some plaster than needs a sand and paint, then a day of modeling related tasks. Both days to be punctuated with reminders to teenagers to do their home work! along with the tune from both of them: "ooow, dad, we do our own time management"

Keep safe every one. :thumb
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

DougN
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Fri May 22, 2020 8:36 am

It appears to have been a month since I was working on the V2's as the say a change is as good as a holiday (Tony on Brimsdown started another distraction of layout building and my Neilson 12" kit) I have actually been thinking about completing some more on the chassis. The problem is both of the chassis need a trial run. However in have looked at the complex nature of the brake gear, this is more compact than the the A3 in the MRJ build. There was also the connection which I had guessed at on one of the frame stretchers!

This is the diagram from the instructions
IMG_0831.JPG


But this is the designed way (springs have been omitted as they have already been modified)
IMG_0830.JPG
you can see the tags that go into the frame stretcher.

This is my solution with the springs on a new plate which can be bolted (when I find my 10ba tap :? ) so I will solder the tags to the new stretcher. This will also be fixed by the pivots at each end of the chassis and the bolt!
IMG_0829.JPG


This was quicker than I expected today. ( it was a nice way to spend part of a day off work!)
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Doug
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DougN
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Sun May 24, 2020 3:57 am

Ok my usual with the brakes... I can get them to work :? Chassis no1 below has the brakes on. I need to solder the brake leavers to the chassis keeper plate but basically they are there.
IMG_0832.JPG




This photo shows the keeper plate and the brake leavers.
IMG_0834.JPG

These need to be soldered to the plate below and a 1.2mm bar through the chassis at the front will become the fixing points. There is another 1.2mm pivot near the plate but this will have to be cosmetic as this will be close to the fixing.


As you can see the brake blocks are too hard against the wheels so I will need to file them back a fair bit to get some running clearance. Next is the pickups but space is at a premium on the underside, on rmweb I have had a suggestion to come over the top of the chassis. However as there is splashers over most of the wheels I think this is a non starter.

Below is a bottom up shot of where all the bits are.
IMG_0833.JPG


I am thinking that this chassis may be stripped down and painted next as this is approaching a test running without the full valve gear.

I should also mention that there is some pipes and rods to go under the cab area which will not allow the rear truck to be dropped out. I think these will go in later after painting so it can be stripped down for cleaning and painting to be reassembled latter.
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Doug
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Dave Holt
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby Dave Holt » Sun May 24, 2020 10:09 am

[quote="DougN"]As you can see the brake blocks are too hard against the wheels so I will need to file them back a fair bit to get some running clearance.

I was just about to commend you on getting the brake blocks prototypically close to the wheels!
On the subject of pick-ups, I'm sure you could get some of the thin wire type in there, bearing on the back of the wheel flanges. A bit like this?
Crab_003.JPG

Good luck with the loco,
Dave.
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DougN
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Mon May 25, 2020 2:47 am

OK Dave, I may leave some of the brake blocks where they are... as long as they have some clearance which the rear drivers generally don't. they are too tight. The Brakes are removable and I will eventually solder them to the keeper plate.... I have to do the second loco tonight as it is all threaded up but not yet soldered!
Doug
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Dave Holt
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby Dave Holt » Tue May 26, 2020 10:38 am

Doug,
Please don't alter your usual approach to the brake blocks because of my attempted humour. The key thing is to avoid shorts, allowing for any over-scale suspension movement and side play. I suppose the solution to this dilemma is plastic or resin blocks. Or, does split frame eliminate this issue?
Dave.

DougN
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Tue May 26, 2020 10:37 pm

All OK Dave, I am thinking how I can get the pick ups into both of them. There is a difficulty in that the brake cylinders are actually located in the middle of the loco. Ie between the second and third driven axles. This results in a pull rod located higher up and parallel to the main rods, which pivots in front of the first driven axle to pull the brakes against the wheels. (I hope that makes sense)

I do like your system of having a thicker main bar on which to mount the pickups. By the way yours are very neat, mine work but they tend not to be tidy!

It will be weekend before I get back to modelling as work keeps interfering! :cry:
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

Philip Hall
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby Philip Hall » Tue May 26, 2020 11:38 pm

Doug,

Not sure if this idea will help at all as it makes the brake gear permanent. Possibly not appropriate for something as elegant as a Finney chassis. Or anything from Dave H’s bench come to that!

I have been doing battle (in a good way) with a 00 Works LSWR D15 4-4-0, converting it to P4 as I would often do for normal RTR. Except this isn’t normal, it’s more like a competent 00 whitemetal kit build, with the added complication of being wired the American way, that is one side of the engine live to one rail, one side of the tender to the other rail. Firstly I was using plastic centred wheels, and then I guess the possibility of sparks and frying chips led the specification to include a complete rewire, with space for a chip In the tender.

This meant that there were thin wires all over the place and new brake gear because the original was too fragile and fell apart. Not a lot of space either, so I used a dodge from another engine and insulated the cross beams and hung the pickups off them and the longitudinal shafts. It looks ok from the side view, and works a treat.

As I say, it’s not that elegant, but for a conversion where the chassis is already laid out for you it’s another option. This one is not sprung or compensated but is beautifully assembled and ran wonderfully before I pulled it apart and threw the guarantee out of the window.

Enjoying how you are getting on, keep at it.

Philip

8BE59FA7-FE50-40A9-9884-FA46DE9C5C18.jpeg
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Will L
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby Will L » Wed May 27, 2020 10:32 am

Philip Hall wrote:Doug,

Not sure if this idea will help at all as it makes the brake gear permanent...


Philip

While I accept you're the expert here who is more than playing at this (so thoughts of grandmothers and egg are going through my mind) As I have suggested elsewhere, I would have thought the brake gear could clip on to the chassis at the top of the break hangers, and would then be perfectly removable. I don't think adding the pickups as you have, so neatly, invalidates this approach?

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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby Philip Hall » Wed May 27, 2020 11:21 am

Will,

Grandmothers and eggs are just fine. Mine had some good ideas. Thanks for the compliment - not sure about the expert thing though; x being the unknown factor and spurt a drip under pressure...

Possibly on an all metal chassis clipping on might work, although there would also be the connecting wires to the motor to consider. On this chassis it’s not immediately clear from the picture perhaps that the outer frames are styrene and cosmetic, so a bit more fragile. The brake hangers are 0.7mm wire in holes drilled through the plastic and into the brass beneath, held with cyano and epoxy. Even so there was a tendency for the whole assembly to move fore and aft, so I anchored the longitudinal rods to the PCB plate with two links of more 0.7mm wire, which also acted as the current transfer.

This was a chassis from the dark ages in some respects; two whitemetal spacer blocks to which are screwed two thick brass mainframes (5 screws!) but it had some moulded brakes which were a bit fragile. Those lasted on the EM D15, this being my second go at one. What sets this apart though is the coreless motor and the gear set, which I think is Markits. It is almost silent, starts imperceptibly and just sails along. True, some of the details are a bit heavy, as is the lining and the engine itself (mostly whitemetal) so it weighs a ton. But it’s tidily put together and at the price is very good value. I gather they make 300 or so in a batch and then that’s it.

I do have another D15 to do for myself one day, from a Falcon or Jidenco kit (don’t laugh, it’s not that bad) so I might have a go at removable pickup brakes on that. I won’t need DCC wiring either so there might be a bit more room.

Philip

DougN
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Thu May 28, 2020 3:14 am

Phillip,

I have found that a DCC chip (my prefered for P4 locos and High level kits) are the TCS Z2 for the smallest and M1's for a standard. These all have great flexible small diameter wire which allows room always to be found for!

Doug
(still thinking about the pick ups and how to arrange them! :? )
Doug
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DougN
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Sat May 30, 2020 12:18 pm

Been a standard Saturday with family things needing to be done. I finally found a little time to look at the location for the pickups. I found between the second and third axles there is a space of 10mm x 12mm for the pcb's so these have been cut and glued in.... only to have no1 son decide it was a good time to discuss his marine fish tank, he has had some success with growing some coral. I now understand how my parents felt when I started discussing model railways when I was 17!

I have also dug out some portescapes and tested them for the 2 locos I have a number that are working however one
. Brand new never used was as stiff as a tree branch... so I have to do a full clean out of the grease to see if I the will free up. I have a couple of others that are Ok so I will use these first.

I am still thinking of the best way to set up these pickups as they may end up being very short. I have some 0.15 phosphor bronze and some 0.35 I think I may try the thinner and shorter version first. The pcb was some double sided from Eileen's which is only 0.35 thick so cuts easily. This doesn't produce the massive blocks that the bread board or sheet pcb does.

Any how, more tomorrow
Doug
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Horsetan
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby Horsetan » Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:59 pm

Dunno, Doug. I picked up the soldering iron for what seemed like the first time in months, and realised that my eyesight isn't what it used to be, even with varifocals.

Tasks such as assembling coupling rods are no longer the easy process I used to take for granted. I 'm going to try an Optivisor magnifying thing that I picked up at the last NLG meeting, and see what happens.
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Will L
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby Will L » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:00 pm

Horsetan wrote:Dunno, Doug. I picked up the soldering iron for what seemed like the first time in months, and realised that my eyesight isn't what it used to be, even with varifocals.

Tasks such as assembling coupling rods are no longer the easy process I used to take for granted. I 'm going to try an Optivisor magnifying thing that I picked up at the last NLG meeting, and see what happens.

That's a familiar feeling. Things I used to be able to do with just my specs, now need the optivisor as well, and not the lowest level of magnification either.

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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:08 pm

Your right Horse, yesterday at work I was doing a review of a set of architectural drawings for my next possible project. The project won't or shouldn't get a permit for all the things I found. Non compliances with disability access let alone all the detailing that would have more water in the building rather than out side it! . I had to take my glasses off and on so many times. I don't have modelling issues at the moment being short sighted, so I guess I have about 10 years before I have to look at optivisors etc... getting older is no fun like this.

It's a long weekend here so you may see a few updates on the V2's!
Doug
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby Horsetan » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:18 am

DougN wrote:.... I don't have modelling issues at the moment being short sighted, so I guess I have about 10 years before I have to look at optivisors etc... getting older is no fun like this. ....


I've been shortsighted since 12 partly because of modelling. But correcting it with varifocals now makes it difficult to focus close up.

Can't win.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

DougN
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:15 am

Bit so a frustrating few hours of modelling, the first v2 has the portescap fitted but the valve gear is clashing, but I did get the chassis rolling again. The second has a highlevel and mashma, but one crank pin sheared trying to get the nut off. On putting everything back together the other crank pin unscrewed jamming the bearing. So once back together I thought to just put it on the shelf and look starting at the footplate and body.

More tomorrow
Doug
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Paul Willis
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby Paul Willis » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:17 am

DougN wrote:Bit so a frustrating few hours of modelling, the first v2 has the portescap fitted but the valve gear is clashing, but I did get the chassis rolling again. The second has a highlevel and mashma, but one crank pin sheared trying to get the nut off. On putting everything back together the other crank pin unscrewed jamming the bearing. So once back together I thought to just put it on the shelf and look starting at the footplate and body.

More tomorrow


Oh Doug, I know that feeling!

Glass of decent red and it will look better in the morning...

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

DougN
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:15 pm

Your right flymo, though I have been growing in the wrong directions again, so unfortunately Red is off the list at the moment... unfortunately also the home rower is back on :? As happened last time I guess I will lose about 3kgs, become totally inflexible and sleep like a log. I will be fit though and my cloths will be loose.... not that I change cloth size either :evil: (I have noticed I am fitter after spending more time on site as there is 9 floors and I seem to do 2 laps of the entire thing 3 times a week. There is no lift installed yet! )

Any how battle commences tomorrow on both of the bodies. The chassis will get a look in once the bodies are mostly together as I need to know the motors and gearboxes have the required clearances.
Doug
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DougN
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:02 am

Been a nice long weekend here, cold but sunny. Went out to do some gardening at one point but crazy beagle decided that escaping the Stalag Blackburn south was a good idea :x , so after visiting 3 neighbours he was cornered and brought back! He realised that he was not in my good books... this results in attempted facelicking... to which my comment I have seen what you lick no way... which then turns into a game.

Anyhow after a coffee I sat down for longer than expected of 3 hours! The end result, about 4 paragraphs of the instructions finished!
IMG_0838.JPG


Yesterday I did one of the boilers and put most of the cabs together, so as to prove the angle at the front is correct.
IMG_0839.JPG
IMG_0840.JPG


I have identified a bit of a problem in that a couple of parts have gone missing, one is the bottom half of the angle to the interior edge of the footpath. Which I have to figure out how to replicate and then there is another which is the front face of the boiler as a ring around the smokebox door. My problem is I have no idea if I have lost them or the previous owner had! Any how this is the challange of modelling.
IMG_0841.JPG


Other than my work area looking like the plant with 2 V2's going! It's enjoyable and encouraging to keep going... even when I look at the number of parts still to put on more have been fitted than there are left!
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Doug
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Phil O
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby Phil O » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:57 pm

As always, I'm a bit late for the party, I have been using an optovisor for a while and was struggling a bit with it with my varifocal glasses, so the last time I went to the opticians I mentioned it and now have a pair of times 3 plain glasses and it makes one hell of a difference and on the odd occasion I still use the optovisor with them as well. I have too say that the specs take a bit of getting used to, especially when you look for bits or tools on the bench.

Cheers

Phil.

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Horsetan
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby Horsetan » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:29 pm

Phil O wrote:.... have a pair of times 3 plain glasses and it makes one hell of a difference and on the odd occasion I still use the optovisor with them as well. I have too say that the specs take a bit of getting used to, especially when you look for bits or tools on the bench....


Image
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Phil O
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby Phil O » Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:34 pm

Horsetan wrote:
Phil O wrote:.... have a pair of times 3 plain glasses and it makes one hell of a difference and on the odd occasion I still use the optovisor with them as well. I have too say that the specs take a bit of getting used to, especially when you look for bits or tools on the bench....


Image


Suprisingly they are not jam jar bottoms like Eli's, but they are about 2mm thicker than my varifocals and are a lot more comfortable than the optovisor.

DougN
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Re: Martin Finney V2

Postby DougN » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:45 am

Well overnight I have thought of a solution to the missing angle trim. I can make effectively the same trim from a piece of wire for the lower leg and then use the kit trim for the upper.

The second problem is the ring to the smokebox door. I have an idea that a circle cutter and 2 layers of .2mm brass which is about 8 to 10thou. I think this is possible to scribe and cut out with a compass. I would make this in 2 parts 1 the backing and the ring to the front then solder the lot together.

It is good what you can think up when given a bit of brain time. :thumb
Doug
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